[LH3614 | LH3790] Compile error: some linked sections in the compiled document (PDF) start with <$rst_scene>

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devinganger
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Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:37 am Post

Manni wrote:I'm just checking that they are not forgotten, or that there isn't another reason that prevents these from being fixed.


The devs themselves have said that if it has a bug number assigned, they aren't going to forget it.

They also don't tend to share with us the internal details of why one bug is prioritized over another.

Simply put, have some faith in the devs.
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Manni
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Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:46 am Post

devinganger wrote:
Manni wrote:I'm just checking that they are not forgotten, or that there isn't another reason that prevents these from being fixed.


The devs themselves have said that if it has a bug number assigned, they aren't going to forget it.

They also don't tend to share with us the internal details of why one bug is prioritized over another.

Simply put, have some faith in the devs.


I have some faith in the devs, but after nearly four months and 12 betas without a fix for a bug that makes the software unusable for professional use (i.e. compiling a publishable document), I feel that a reminder can't hurt, especially as it's not the only one.

I haven't been able to compile a usable document in six months of beta testing, and most of these issues were reported as early as beta 19, almost four month ago. Thankfully I use Scrivener for Mac to compile, but moving to the PC version is not possible at this stage as compile is still crippled by such bugs.

Anyway, my reminder was one line, thanks to you it's one page now, and it's staying at the top of the thread for even more attention. So keep posting :).

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narrsd
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Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:42 am Post

Manni, I decided to have a look over this, since I also wanted to understand how to do a manual ToC, which is what I think you must be doing, for a Word, PDF, etc. output, as the automatic ToC on ebooks seems to handle itself.

I think it's worth prefacing, and as may help your feeling of being overlooked, that as far as I know serious work on the Compile abilities of Scriv 3 Win has only begun two or so release versions ago. And in that time, for one big thing, they've cleaned up all the difficulties with font appearance, which is kind of fundamental, so proper to do first.

Ok, then. With some hours work, I think I've corralled pretty much the state of this area, which should be useful to Tiho & Co. as they get into making all this work.

- Each trial, I did Copy Special: Copy Documents as ToC, and pasted the results into a leading page titled Table of Contents. This is somewhat broken - you have to select your pages from bottom to top (not top-bottom), and I think be in a single editor, before Copy Documnets as ToC will be active so you can click it.
- Basically, the <$> tags you can embed, and are embedded for Formats like Paperback, in the Title Options, don't work at all. No result, and that includes your <$rst_scene> which doesn't print but has the side effect. So this is the center of what they have to tackle.
- I got your <$rst_scene> printing, when I didn't do the next item, but let's isolate that.

May be important: you can get your ToC to look as you're after -- mostly -- by instead embedding the tags in the page chapter titles, as you find them in the Binder. For example, 'Chapter <$t:chapter> -- Your Title'.

You have to do that on all levels of the outline, or it won't work -- you'll get repeated ToC entries instead of the real lines which don't have tags. Great fun.

And when you do, you won't get page numbers either. I didn't get 'the same', as you did, I got ? question mark, always.

Lastly, I couldn't seem to get <$rst_scene> to work this way, added into the chapter titles, so scene numbers just kept incrementing.

Then, although this method shows the basic functionality is there, it's a lot of trouble. What I might suggest if you need that pro output right now is to compile your ToC in Mac Scrivener, then copy-paste-substitute it in on the Win Scriv Word or whatever output you're using.

Here are some other things that are not right yet, for the team:
- as described, selecting pages so that you can successfully copy-special them as ToC is hinky
- compile format settings for first line indents don't work, and actually the radio buttons don't select properly either: try the fourth one...
- You wouldn't use those for ToC, I found, at least as matters appear, but still need to work. ToC formatting seems to be doable on the block you've copied in as special -- wondering how far that goes?? Fonts at least, but margins/indents didn't seem ok.


Ok, that's my unintended afternoon spent, somehow actually relaxing?? Hmm.

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Manni
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Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:47 am Post

@Narrsd: thanks for taking the time to investigate this. Yes I do generate the TOC manually (by selecting all the sections I want to have in the TOC in the binder and copying them into a Table of Contents section). Unfortunately I can't make any manual changes after that, because we're publishing non fiction with dozens of chapters, sections and subsection (first volume is 470 pages long, second volume is 250 pages long) so it just has to be handled.

Then if I have to do anything with Scrivener Mac to compile, then I'd rather use Scrivenenr Mac for everything, We output from the same manuscript directly to EPUB for kindle and to PDF for print to Amazon KDP and Ingramspark, which is why Scrivener is so amazing in the first place. So there is no way to collate different outputs into one file, and frankly we don't have the time to deal with this kind of workaround when releasing a book, which often requires frequent updates in a hurry. Anything that slows down or can cause errors is not an option during a book launch. So Scrivener Mac is used now.

However, we'd like to leave the Mac platform and go back to PC. There is no way this can be done given Scrivener PC current state, and the fact that compile is still completely unusable.

Unfortunately even the font issues you mention have not been resolved.

I have reported this issue with the Special Elite font months ago: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=57740

It's still there. Apparently it's not there if you create the section in Scrivener PC, only when the manuscript was created on a Mac, which means that it might never be resolved as it seems to be good enough for the team to ask Mac users to recreate sections that the PC version can't handle properly.

Basically compile is still not functional as far as I can see. It's been the case for months, and although a few of the reported issues have been fixed, we're still a long way from being able to use this. Every time I try to compile my test document, it still looks like a broken experiment: no title page, wrong spacing for some fonts, errors in TOC... Just garbage.

I have no idea what the priorities are for the devs, I'm just hoping that issues like these are not forgotten, and that by the time it moves out of beta all these issues will be solved. In the meantime, we have to keep the Mac to release our books. We released the last one in October (on the Mac), let's see if the next one (in the first half of 2020) can be released on PC.

I'll check back in a couple of months, when it's time to decide on which platform we do the formatting :)

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narrsd
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Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:43 pm Post

Manni, it sounds you are wise, in your publishing circumstances, indeed to stick with the Mac version for now.

It's what I would do, and one can remember this is a Beta, with release extended to allow fixing all such things as this that have turned up. I would say up-fron t that I have quite high confidence in Lee and Tiho's team, having dealt with deep issues here for, well, enough years; it's just that they need the time. Software of this kind is not at all easy.

- on the compile-time tokens, this is so non-functional at the moment that I imagine it has 'do-next' priority, again now that Compile is the development focus of attention.

- the font issue, in reading through;its postings, sounds different. If Bryan is correct, the real problem is on the Mac side -- something not quite right that for Mac output they get away with. Given it doesn't occur when creating the document on Win, this should not be an issue for long, once other things you need are in place. The workaround for documents partially created on Mac sounds that you accept as doable, and that will get you through.

I would just ask if you've tried one of those Mac-created projects on the latest Beta 30, with:
- open the project
- Go to the File | Options | Editing | Options tab, and set both Display Font Hinting and Print & PDF Font Hinting are set to default (on the right). This is a new pair of settings, so may need to be changed on a previous project.
- Fully Exit Scrivener (File | Exit)
- Start Scrivener again, which should be on the same project you closed, and now see if your Special Elite font issues are still present. This restart is by past experience likely necessary to get the effect of the new settings.

Ok, and we might keep fingers crossed there.

I appreciate the nature of needs for your full project-to-formatted-purchaseable-ebook operation, which are more stringent probably than those of the many using Scrivener at present primarily to compose.

At the same time, more and more of us are going to self-publishing for fiction etc. as well, so the abilities you need should be addressed well, I think we can be confident.

It's just that the primary editing abilities pretty much had to go in and be tuned first, and then the Compile can be updated to deal well with all of them.

Hoping this helps, and once again it sounds you are on a quite sensible path, Manni. These added notes should help Tiho and Lee -- and Bryan can tell us if they need to be put in a separate posting, to be seen.

Regards each,
Clive

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Manni
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Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:35 pm Post

Hi Clive,

Thanks for your thoughtful post. I will try your suggestion and will update the relevant thread if it produces any result. [EDIT: I checked, both options were on default already, I applied, restarted and the Special Elite font issue is still there].
[EDIT2: I also tried Bryan's workaround, and it doesn't work here, so I bumped that thread too and am asking for the issue to be logged].

It's not only ebooks that we produce that way, but print books as well, which is why we love Scrivener so much. Being able to generate publication-ready files as ebooks or print books from the same manuscript saves us hours of work and minimizes the chances for mistakes when dealing with multiple files (which we had to do in the past). This is, truly, a testament to Scrivener's power and versatility.

I personally have no problems waiting for the software to get out of beta. I only bump a few long outstanding issues from time to time, to make sure they are not forgotten. I think that leaving a few months and 7 betas is a decent enough gap between reminders.

I only feel the need to detail my reasons for doing so when some (not you) post patronizing and alienating advice, simply because they don't care about these issues, without adding anything to the discussion. Without these, it would have been a single line in the thread.

We have moved everything back to PC, and we only need the Mac to compile using Scrivener. Hopefully this won't be the case anymore at some point, ideally before we need to replace the hardware, in a couple of years :).