Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Pr
Prometheus
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:19 pm Post

Astaff wrote:
hhavens72 wrote:Telling us we are failures as writers because we dare to question the delayed release of a version that has been promised for two years is a sign of a toxic environment and cult thinking. Reading these posts is making me regret my purchase of Scrivener. Methinks it may be time to move to Google Docs. I can use my terrible writing skills to explain why I know longer use Scrivener!


Was anyone actually called a failure as a writer?


Did you read this thread at all? Or do you just willingly turn a blind eye to your compatriots and their jibes at people? This is just from this thread. There is other crap just like this in other threads.

But don’t blame your failure as a writer on Scrivener.

Speaking of failed writers, judging by all the negative comments on the Windows beta, there appears to be plenty of writers blaming the tool. Methinks the failures should take a look in the plate glass on the outside of the coffee-shop patio. They might just catch a glimpse of themselves.


I swear, sometimes it's like wandering into a cult here.

no
novelwriting
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:52 pm Post

Exactly!

Tw
Twolane
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:03 pm Post

Go and write something meaningful besides blog posts.

As
Astaff
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Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:21 am Post

“But don’t blame your failure as a writer on Scrivener”

Checked back and yes, missed a couple of such comments. Looking at one in particular seemed the poster being referred to was claiming they couldn’t write due to the delay in V3 where they had 1.9, so the comment was somewhat BS. The poster was being called on that, perhaps a bit harshly, however it was accurate to the extent, they could write, and claiming they couldn’t seemed an excuse for innaction.

It did seem another might have committed ‘production’ work to V3 in anticipation of release despite L&L warning not to use beta for that (not to mention common sense).

So, despite those two, still no sign of claimed trolls or any poor culture.

Your reply ignored my point about the overwhelming supportive culture in all boards. You pointed out I missed a couple of posts you feel prove your point, you seem to be missing or dismissing thousands that disprove it.

My closing point remains, you were threatening to go to an inferior solution and more importantly and patently nasty, attack L&L’s business just because your nose was out of joint by a few people who called out the attacks on L&L and their staff.

Tw
Twolane
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Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:13 pm Post

* holds up hand, looks around *

Perhaps one of the "guilty" parties here, but I've been using the new beta since 7. Have I ever used ALL of any versions of Scrivener's features? NO! I do not.

I use Send To Kindle to proof multiple times on a tablet and a phone. These proofing files are compiled by Scrivener into a .doc for upload using Send To Kindle. Nothing easier than that.

Perhaps my reasoning is skewed, but I write like the devil himself. I compile the edited draft in the current Scrivener Beta to text for the final version. I load the .txt file into Word, and subsequently use Word's Styles feature and a personalized template for everything. The final product is saved as a .doc and a .docx file for upload in those formats for Amazon, Smashwords, Kobo, and on and on.

Slam. Bam. Bob's yer unkle. Done. So yeah, when some start complaining about how it doesn't do this and won't do that, I take exception.

No, I don't compile to all the marvelous outputs that Scrivener users admire. I don't need them.**

** Others might, for whatever reason. Good luck if you do, because it seems like an awful lot of extra work.

So while I may :P get a little cranky at the differences of opinion, I keep on writing, editing, uploading, and starting new work. Know why? Because the Scrivener SOFTWARE. JUST. WORKS.

Of course, as always, one's mileage may vary.

Write on, ladies and gentlemen.

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DavidR
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Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:25 am Post

Prometheus wrote:.... I swear, sometimes it's like wandering into a cult here.

Just on this point, and on this point alone, what's going on in some of these threads is not, in my experience over the last several years, typical of these forums. To me, it's like wandering into the postgame discussion after a round of 5th-grade dodgeball: "You cheated!" "You threw at my head on purpose!" "Your sister is ugly!" "It takes one to know one!"

Some of these threads complaining about the delay of Scrivener Windows 3 started out fairly reasonably; some of them started out aggressive and hostile. Some of the responses from long-time users who are, yes, loyal to an excellent product and even sometimes defensive of its hardworking and honest creators, have gotten obnoxious.

For those who may be discouraged about whether anything useful ever happens here, I really would encourage you to dip into a couple of threads responding to requests for help in using the software. I think you'll find a much healthier and less culty or dodgeballish environment. We do occasionally get things right around here!
David
Scrivener for Windows Version 1.9.9
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit

What's the difference between a free lance and a loose cannon?

li
liontales
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Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:07 am Post

I bet, there will be a lot more crybabies, if they released a buggy new version, instead of ongoing with beta and trying to solve problems.

just my 2 cents.

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AmberV
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Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:19 pm Post

Inferring that disappointed people willing to express their disappointment are “crybabies” isn’t necessary.

That aside, you are of course correct. We would rather have disappointed folks over the calendar date than disappointment over releasing incomplete (not even just with many known bugs) software. So we’re avoiding the second much larger problem, and we’ll be avoiding the first problem as well, going forward. The community will know when the software is ready, not when we think it will be.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

li
liontales
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Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:07 am Post

You're right amber, it doesn't match to all critics here, but sometimes i can't take forums seriously enough anymore. to attack the programmers does not help anyone, tough.

Pr
Prometheus
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Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:36 pm Post

Astaff wrote:“But don’t blame your failure as a writer on Scrivener”

(snip)

So, despite those two, still no sign of claimed trolls or any poor culture.


Of course. History doesn't exist for some people, and this is the only thread ever that anyone has read so you can dismiss their opinion on just how toxic some people are here. I've seen it in past visits as well, and no, I'm not bothering to cast about for samples for you. You won't care, and you'll simply attempt to justify them anyway.

Your reply ignored my point about the overwhelming supportive culture in all boards. You pointed out I missed a couple of posts you feel prove your point, you seem to be missing or dismissing thousands that disprove it.


Because I come to the forums from time to time looking for news on WinV3 and pop in infrequently except for this past month, when I finally had to register and speak my piece. Ergo, this is where I am. I do not have the time or the need to park myself in the forums here, so my observation is based on this. I recall reading one post here at some point - by a Mac user, of all people - pointing out the toxicity in these forums from a certain group of people. At least they had the stones to acknowledge it actually happens.

My closing point remains, you were threatening to go to an inferior solution and more importantly and patently nasty, attack L&L’s business just because your nose was out of joint by a few people who called out the attacks on L&L and their staff.


I threatened no such thing and have not once attacked L&L's business. I happily use Scrivener and have since....I can't recall exactly when, but it was perhaps six months or so after the Win version came out. I currently (and happily) use whichever beta version is on the block, although the incompatibility between them is slightly annoying. Two days ago, someone asked me what I used for my writing projects. Without hesitation, I blurted out "Scrivener!" and then spent some time helping them get into it - one reason for which was so they didn't have to come here - because I think it is a fine tool indeed.

As a business owner myself, however, I recognize that there are people in this forum doing no favors whatsoever for L&L, who make a product I would love for them to make oodles of money on so they can continue to develop it.

Hu
Huskey
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Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:41 pm Post

by Prometheus » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:36 am:

I happily use Scrivener


... and they happily lived ever after. THE END.

As
Astaff
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Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:02 am Post

Prometheus wrote:
Your reply ignored my point about the overwhelming supportive culture in all boards. You pointed out I missed a couple of posts you feel prove your point, you seem to be missing or dismissing thousands that disprove it.


Because I come to the forums from time to time looking for news on WinV3 and pop in infrequently except for this past month, when I finally had to register and speak my piece. Ergo, this is where I am. I do not have the time or the need to park myself in the forums here, so my observation is based on this. I recall reading one post here at some point - by a Mac user, of all people - pointing out the toxicity in these forums from a certain group of people. At least they had the stones to acknowledge it actually happens.

My closing point remains, you were threatening to go to an inferior solution and more importantly and patently nasty, attack L&L’s business just because your nose was out of joint by a few people who called out the attacks on L&L and their staff.


I threatened no such thing and have not once attacked L&L's business.


Calling the forums toxic without bothering to check beyond a couple of threads that started with insults to L&L and staff and demands for ‘consequences’ to which a few people rightly came to L&L defence and even suggested a little more respectful discussion is unfair and the threats of some to badmouth L&L, their product and the forum on that basis is uncalled for. You don’t need to ‘park’ yourself in the forum to see all the great supportive responses, just a quick look would tell you, and the person I was specifically responding to. Claiming the forums are toxic without taking that minimal time perhaps shows a mindset?

If you go back and check you will see I was responding to someone else who did indeed threaten to go to a clearly inferior product (IMHO), to badmouth L&L, turn people away from the product etc.

Perhaps you felt it applied to you in one way or another to get all antsy with the reply.

Pr
Prometheus
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:00 am Post

Astaff wrote:
Prometheus wrote:

Calling the forums toxic without bothering to check beyond a couple of threads that started with insults to L&L and staff and demands for ‘consequences’ to which a few people rightly came to L&L defence and even suggested a little more respectful discussion is unfair and the threats of some to badmouth L&L, their product and the forum on that basis is uncalled for. You don’t need to ‘park’ yourself in the forum to see all the great supportive responses, just a quick look would tell you, and the person I was specifically responding to. Claiming the forums are toxic without taking that minimal time perhaps shows a mindset?


Right - and thanks, yet another insult (about my "mindset") to just cement the fact that people questioning anything really aren't welcome. Because when someone sees the flaming people are getting, they should just merrily pop away to start going through topics in which they have no interest and which are not applicable to what they're using. But maybe since I'm a n00b here, you'll deem this person's post more valuable than my opinion or that of anyone else who happens to float through here as their first experience in these forums - and who probably also will not bother heading off to find all those helpful, friendly posts that might exist elsewhere:

viewtopic.php?p=288350#p288350


If you go back and check you will see I was responding to someone else who did indeed threaten to go to a clearly inferior product (IMHO), to badmouth L&L, turn people away from the product etc.


Since you were replying to me, quoting me, and accusing me of doing such a thing, no, you were not. You simply incorrectly chose me as a target and you seem to think your actions are a-ok. Since nobody from L&L bothers to corral the things you and others throw at people, I guess it's a-ok with them, too.

Perhaps you felt it applied to you in one way or another to get all antsy with the reply.


Perhaps, since you don't really bother to read anything, you missed the entire part of me saying how much I love Scrivener. But hey, baseless insinuations about other writers is your (and a couple of others') thing. Do you, dude.

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Astaff
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:25 am Post

Go look again. my original comment that you injected yourself into was in response to someone else threatening to go elsewhere, threatening to damage L&L business etc.

You seem to get bent out of shape at the least, so I'll leave it at that.

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lunk
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:07 am Post

Prometheus wrote:Because I come to the forums from time to time looking for news on WinV3 and pop in infrequently except for this past month, when I finally had to register and speak my piece.

I think this is one of the things that irritate some of the long term users who spend a lot of time trying to help newcomers and people who have problems. Suddenly someone new comes in and visit the forum, posting only to complain about something.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS