When to quit...?!

User avatar
pigfender
Posts: 2750
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:25 am
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: I share a head with a great many personalities
Contact:

Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:46 am Post

How long is too long to spend on a piece of writing? What are the tell-tale signs that a WIP has outstayed it’s welcome?

I started work on my WIP eight years ago, and while I’m still enjoying it, the constant disruptions (the day job, eight NiaDs, two emigrations, etc) have dragged the whole thing out for an age! Is an idea I came up with eight years ago still likely to be my “highest value” idea to be working on? What are the chances that my writing style has stayed consistent over that period? And should I really be hoping for my style to have not improved over the best part of a decade?

Basically, I think I’m asking for “permission” to keep going.

What do you lot think? Any advice on when to walk away and when to stick at it? Anyone faced similar situations?
"Some dice only have sixes." nom, 19 Oct 2013
"Piggy, I'm beginning to wonder if you are the best person to take advice from." Jaysen, 26 Sept 2014

Image
http://www.pigfender.com | http://www.novelinaday.com

Image

User avatar
lunk
Posts: 3640
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:24 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Sweden 64° N

Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:46 am Post

Read it through. Do you still like the story?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

Tw
Twolane
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:39 pm
Platform: Windows

Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:03 pm Post

You might want to take a look at pulp writer Dean Wesley Smith's blog. He's a very firm believer that writing practice is writing new work. Re-writing isn't. I tend to go along with that, but as always, writing is solitary work, so what works for you is what works for you.

In other words, you do what you must.

User avatar
xiamenese
Posts: 4080
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:32 am
Platform: Mac
Location: London or Exeter, UK.

Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:37 pm Post

How about a left-field idea. Think up the plot etc. for NiaD 2019, but rather than giving that to the troops, set about writing it yourself, and reduce your old project to a NiaD plot and let others write different versions for you? You can always use some of your chapters to fill in if you don't have the requisite number of contributors to provide all the chapters for each of the books.

What about it? :)

Mr X
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
iMac 27" (late 2015) 10.15.2, 24GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 16GB RAM, 2TB SSID
2017 iPad, iPadOS 13.3, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

User avatar
pigfender
Posts: 2750
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:25 am
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: I share a head with a great many personalities
Contact:

Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:59 pm Post

lunk wrote:Read it through. Do you still like the story?

Yup, but I’ve also lost all perspective on it. Is it good, or is it just familiar?!

Twolane wrote:...writing new work. Re-writing isn't.

I’m a long way from the re-writing stage. I’ve written 24 and a half chapters and I reckon that’s about 2/3 the way through.

xiamenese wrote:How about a left-field idea. Think up the plot etc. for NiaD 2019, but rather than giving that to the troops, set about writing it yourself, and reduce your old project to a NiaD plot and let others write different versions for you? You can always use some of your chapters to fill in if you don't have the requisite number of contributors to provide all the chapters for each of the books.

What about it? :)

Mr X

It’s a neat idea, but I’m not sure this one would work as a NiaD. I’m pretty sure NiaD is done now, anyway!
"Some dice only have sixes." nom, 19 Oct 2013
"Piggy, I'm beginning to wonder if you are the best person to take advice from." Jaysen, 26 Sept 2014

Image
http://www.pigfender.com | http://www.novelinaday.com

Image

User avatar
zikade
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:23 am
Platform: Mac
Location: Near Munich, Germany

Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:47 pm Post

Since you asked...
I recently buried a project since I couldn't imagine finishing it. It used to be a screenplay and I tried everything I could to transform it into a novel. It didn't work. In the end, I got bored with it.
Which is the best motivation I know to scrap something.
There are three kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't...

Online
User avatar
devinganger
Posts: 1725
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:55 pm
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: Monroe, WA 98272 (CN97au)
Contact:

Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:03 am Post

pigfender wrote:I started work on my WIP eight years ago, and while I’m still enjoying it, the constant disruptions (the
day job, eight NiaDs, two emigrations, etc) have dragged the whole thing out for an age!


You said the important part in this sentence. You're still enjoying it.

pigfender wrote:Is an idea I came up with eight years ago still likely to be my “highest value” idea to be working on? What are the chances that my writing style has stayed consistent over that period? And should I really be hoping for my style to have not improved over the best part of a decade?


Those are all considerations for when the first draft is done and has been sitting for a bit while you go off and work (or not) on something else. They are NOTHING you need to be thinking about right now. If you're 2/3 done with your WIP and you still enjoy adding words, then you're doing the right thing *for you* and there is no reason why you should stop.

Basically, you need to stop when you no longer feel like you're being productive. First draft is the time for process, not results.
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Winner "Best in Class", 2018 My First Supervillain Photo Shoot

User avatar
auxbuss
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:50 pm
Platform: Mac
Contact:

Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:56 am Post

If it's a first draft, then I'd blast through to the end, writing in some form of shorthand. (I presume you know your ending by now, and you're writing towards it.)

For me, consistency comes from the second draft (rewrite), which I do via each POV – if you have only one POV, then this should be easy enough, unless your character has multiple personalities :-)

My go-to book for writing dilemmas is Stephen Koch's, Writer's Workshop. (It's the only pragmatic book on finishing I've read.) It might be worth reading the chapter, Working and Reworking; especially the section, Fast Drafts and Slow Drafts.

(Aside: I don't regard this as a "beginner's" book. It's for someone who's written ~60,000 words or more, sits back scratching their head and asks themselves: what am I doing?)
Image

User avatar
Tanith
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:19 pm
Platform: Windows

Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:46 am Post

It was actually after I got Scrivener and started tinkering with it that I dragged an old WIP of my own out of the filing cabinet and began working with it. Getting excited about it because Scrivener does what it does so well. My WIP was stuffed into an untidy loose-leaf binder, now it's being gradually migrated into a Scrivener project. "Gradually" because life is always getting in the way, but nothing we can do about that. :mrgreen:

Everyone's mileage will vary but I say if you still love your story, keep at it!
Image

Ji
JimRac
Posts: 1230
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:06 pm
Platform: Win + iOS

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:28 am Post

auxbuss wrote:My go-to book for writing dilemmas is Stephen Koch's, Writer's Workshop. (It's the only pragmatic book on finishing I've read.) It might be worth reading the chapter, Working and Reworking; especially the section, Fast Drafts and Slow Drafts.

(Aside: I don't regard this as a "beginner's" book. It's for someone who's written ~60,000 words or more, sits back scratching their head and asks themselves: what am I doing?)
Yes! I heartily second this book, whose full title is The Modern Library Writer's Workshop: A Guide to the Craft of Fiction.

pigfender wrote:Basically, I think I’m asking for “permission” to keep going.
Yes! You may keep going.

Best,
Jim
I’m just a customer.

St
SteveCarterFrogstory
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:35 pm
Platform: Windows

Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:20 am Post

pigfender wrote:How long is too long to spend on a piece of writing? What are the tell-tale signs that a WIP has outstayed it’s welcome?

I started work on my WIP eight years ago...


I started my WIP in 1972 (I have the notes to prove it - now in Scrivener). My first draft - which I finished on my 72nd birthday, last year, is 80k words. I'm about a third of the way through my second draft, and I'm sure I will need a third draft, and maybe more.
So check in with me in with me in 39 years and I'll give you my opinion on whether your should keep going. :wink:

Steve

User avatar
Kingstonmike
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:42 pm
Platform: Windows
Location: Frontenac County, Ontario, Canada

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:20 pm Post

I'm actually wrestling with this now....I have a WiP that's been about 80% done for several years now...I know what I have to do to finish it ( At least I think I do.) but it keeps getting put off and off.

I have to wonder now if it just needs to be thought of as great practice for the next bunch of writing and left to rot in that great writer's field of past projects.
Image

"Revenge is a dish best served published!”
― Lisa Kovanda

Online
User avatar
devinganger
Posts: 1725
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:55 pm
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: Monroe, WA 98272 (CN97au)
Contact:

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:51 pm Post

Kingstonmike wrote:I'm actually wrestling with this now....I have a WiP that's been about 80% done for several years now...I know what I have to do to finish it ( At least I think I do.) but it keeps getting put off and off.

I have to wonder now if it just needs to be thought of as great practice for the next bunch of writing and left to rot in that great writer's field of past projects.


Advice I got from an author friend: always try to finish a draft. Even if it's not a good draft, the habit and mindset of "first finish the draft, THEN decide whether it's worth continuing" is better practice for the future.
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Winner "Best in Class", 2018 My First Supervillain Photo Shoot

User avatar
gr
Posts: 2120
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:57 am
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Florida

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:24 am Post

I guess I doubt there is any strong correlation between time-to-draft and quality or promise. Your book project is long in the tooth, not probably because of anything about it, but rather because living is a full time job, and you no doubt have a full time job on top of that.

I don't suppose I can add anything to the wise advice already given by others, but I would note this for what it is worth:

There is an ounce of wisdom in Mr. X's playful suggestion that you NIAD it. It is not the farming-out part, which of course you are not going to do, but it does suggest thinking about your task in a certain way differently than you probably do.

Why does NIAD work? Because you can write a decent chapter (draft) in a single day, and because the necessary commitment is both short and definite and there is a hard deadline for finishing. (It also helps, of course, that there is an engaged group of people doing it too.)

If you don't believe me, just ask those NIAD chapter authors whose excitment at their result has something to do with the fact that they accomplished in one day more than they have done in their own novel projects in however long.

So, if you want to jumpstart your progress on the remaining 1/3, I believe there is something that can be productively borrowed from the NIAD process and put to work in one's own work.

Best,
gr
gr : Scrivener user : not affiliated with Lit^Lat
Image
"Nothing, like something, happens anywhere." —Philip Larkin

User avatar
Kingstonmike
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:42 pm
Platform: Windows
Location: Frontenac County, Ontario, Canada

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:26 pm Post

devinganger wrote:Advice I got from an author friend: always try to finish a draft. Even if it's not a good draft, the habit and mindset of "first finish the draft, THEN decide whether it's worth continuing" is better practice for the future.


Well, it's great advice....Obviously, I know I should finish it...But thinking that the resistance to doing so is the unverese telling me something.

The BEST best thing to do would be to give myself a deadline of 60 days to s*** or get off the pot...Finish it or scuttle it forever...and reward myself for finishing it....
Image

"Revenge is a dish best served published!”
― Lisa Kovanda