iCloud Sync

ma
marcoiac
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Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:44 am Post

kewms wrote:I'd also like to point out that iCloud is not magic

Katherine


Even less magic on Catalina :D And I am not talking .scriv syncing (which I do on Dropbox, obviously), I am talking much simpler syncs. It seems we are back to the early days of iCloud...

BTW, I should add that Dropbox too has syncing issues with Catalina, but they can be easily fixed with pausing and restarting syncing. With iCloud, I have not found yet a fix

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Astaff
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Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:18 am Post

I take it you’ve submitted the feedback to Apple/Dropbox on those ‘bugs’.

Any beta will have issues, which is the whole purpose of the program.

ma
marcoiac
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Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:22 pm Post

Astaff wrote:I take it you’ve submitted the feedback to Apple/Dropbox on those ‘bugs’.

Any beta will have issues, which is the whole purpose of the program.


Yeah of course. I have been on both MacOS and iOS public beta programs since their beginnings and always submit feedback. This one is particularly annoying though, because I rely on iCloud syncing for Notes, Noteplan, and other little apps. I also rely on it for Keynote and other iWork apps, but at the moment I don't need to. Funny thing is, under Catalina Google Drive syncing is flawless :D

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Postdoctoral
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Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:36 am Post

kewms wrote:If you are so concerned about synchronization conflicts that you are "afraid" to switch devices, you should probably take a closer look at your synchronization habits. (And yes, we're happy to help you do that.) I've been working back and forth between iOS and Mac OS since iOS Scrivener was in beta, and I've never lost a syllable. Mine seems to be a much more typical experience than those who report frequent conflicts.

I'd also like to point out that iCloud is not magic, no matter what Apple's marketing people claim. All of the fundamental causes of synchronization conflicts will continue to exist regardless of the platform used: If you disconnect your device from the internet with unsynchronized changes, there is no power on Earth that will cause those changes to appear on your other devices.

Katherine

Katherine, I respect a lot the work that you and LL do — but I don’t think you’re entirely right on this point. I too stopped using Scrivener midway through my dissertation and switched to Ulysses because the sync conflict implementation is simply too cumbersome. I never lost a syllable, and most of the sync “conflicts” seemed to have been created out of an excess of caution on the app’s part, as it were. But it did get to the point where the first 20-30 minutes of any writing session were spent to undo the damage of having dared to open the app on my iMac between sessions of work on my iPad. When I switched to Ulysses I had none of that. In fact I would often edit my dissertation on my iPad and watch the new text appear on the iMac screen a few moments later.
You are entirely right that iCloud is not magic, of course, but my experience with Dropbox is just one of annoyance. It feels like a poorly integrated early 2000s hack. A while ago I decided to stop using it and gradually eliminated all apps that depended on it from my life. Now as I take on my next big project, I want to return to Scrivener — because it is, indeed, superior to Ulysses in certain respects, most notably having to use Markdown is a gigantic pain. (Incidentally, yes, I do pay Ulysses’ subscription proudly, and even wear their t-shirt sometimes when I teach — I am happy to share my very small wages with the developers that enable my work, and I would encourage Scrivener to switch to a subscription model too). Where were we — I want to return to Scrivener but there is no way that I will return to Dropbox. Thankfully, at present I have stopped using a Mac altogether and have been going iPad-only, so I have no need for syncing — just backups. But I am worried about what will happen in the future: Apple will release a laptop I cannot resist, I will want syncing again, iCloud will still not support Scrivener and viceversa, Dropbox will still suck, and then...? I’ll move to Ulysses again?
I know there is no solution, and I know you guys do what’s best for the app. I just wanted my situation recorded, should the question ever be reassessed. Thanks for your work!

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kewms
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Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:13 am Post

For the long term, Apple appears to be working on making the iOS Files app more capable, which at some point may allow synchronizing on iDevices to work similarly to synchronizing on Macs: a separate operating system service that isn't really tied to any particular application. That day has not yet arrived, but iOS 13 appears to be a step in that direction.

For the short term, the best alternative to Dropbox continues to be file sharing via iTunes.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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se1961
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Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:57 pm Post

Apologies if this question has been asked already in this very long thread. I am just starting to use iCloud for my general document syncing— because it turns out that Google Backup and Sync was slowing all my computer activity pretty dramatically, and I figured a built in sync solution would be simpler, less strain on the cpu, etc. I am now in the deep tangle of iCloud settings— could anything be more confusing??

My main question: I use Scrivener on two macs and iOS, so do syncing of all of my active scrivener projects through a Dropbox folder. Why would I want to turn Scrivener ON in the iCloud Drive settings? (In iOS, Settings>iCloud>Apps Using iCloud) I can sync all of my archived Scrivener projects via iCloud Drive without turning Scrivener ON in settings, so what exactly does turning it on do?

Bonus, and slightly off topic, if anybody with more experience could clarify: some apps seem to sync their data seamlessly in the background when you turn them “on” in iCloud. Those seem to be apps that store their documents internally, like Notability. Some apps (iThoughts) that store documents externally, will open iCloud documents even if you don’t turn them on. As above, I’m not really sure what turning them on does. Others (PDF Expert) will not even SEE the “Files/iCloud” folder to open or write to files unless you turn them on. Is there any standard operating procedure? Thank you!

PS Also: I did just read through the entire thread, because I couldn’t resist, and appreciate the loquacious (of course) and thoughtful investigation of a topic that vexes me. Here’s something I don’t get: I, too, was concerned about the three device limit, since I have four, including my phone. But then I discovered, to my joy, that I don’t need the Dropbox App on any iOS device in order to use it— just sign in to my Dropbox account and Scrivener chugs happily away. Since I’m using Dropbox only to sync my few active Scrivener projects, I don’t even WANT the app on my phone. Problem solved, unless your four devices are all computers. Right?

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marcoiac
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Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:51 pm Post

se1961 wrote:Apologies if this question has been asked already in this very long thread. I am just starting to use iCloud for my general document syncing— because it turns out that Google Backup and Sync was slowing all my computer activity pretty dramatically, and I figured a built in sync solution would be simpler, less strain on the cpu, etc. I am now in the deep tangle of iCloud settings— could anything be more confusing??

My main question: I use Scrivener on two macs and iOS, so do syncing of all of my active scrivener projects through a Dropbox folder. Why would I want to turn Scrivener ON in the iCloud Drive settings? (In iOS, Settings>iCloud>Apps Using iCloud) I can sync all of my archived Scrivener projects via iCloud Drive without turning Scrivener ON in settings, so what exactly does turning it on do?


I don't have an answer to your question but I definitely turned it OFF. It seemed redundant and perhaps even creating troubles.

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parf
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Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:55 pm Post

kewms wrote:If you are so concerned about synchronization conflicts that you are "afraid" to switch devices, you should probably take a closer look at your synchronization habits. (And yes, we're happy to help you do that.) I've been working back and forth between iOS and Mac OS since iOS Scrivener was in beta, and I've never lost a syllable. Mine seems to be a much more typical experience than those who report frequent conflicts.


Could you explain what are the good synchronization habits? I still cannot figure it out. I am not so much concerned about conflicts, but I seem to do something wrong every single time, when I switch between iOS and Mac: forgetting to close Scrivener on Mac before opening on the iPad, forgetting to reset session on the iPad because it does not reset automatically, forgetting to synchronize projects on the ipad before opening Scrivener on Mac. Also, during synchronisation it's impossible to work (on the iPad even work in another app is impossible, because it stops the process), which is very annoying.

So, what am I doing wrong and what would be these synchronisation habits to develop in the case when someone has to switch between computers several times a day?

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kewms
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:34 am Post

First, enable the autoclose option on the Mac. Scrivener -> Preferences -> General -> Automatic Quit.

Second, on the iPad, go to Settings -> Scrivener -> Syncing & Sharing, and enable all the options.

Third, when you finish working on a document on the iPad, tap the gear icon below the Binder, and choose the option to Sync Now.

The autoclose option should reduce the number of times you come back to the Mac and find Scrivener wasn't closed. But if you do, use the File -> Sync -> With Mobile Devices option to incorporate any mobile changes.

Those options should take care of the large majority of "risky" sync situations.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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lunk
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:52 am Post

Rule no. 1:
Slow down...

Give the Mac time to really upload any changes to the Dropbox server, and close the project before leaving the Mac.
On the iPad, back out of the project to the view where you see all projects, tap sync and wait until it’s finished, before leaving iOS Scrivener or your iPad.
Back at the Mac, give the Dropbox app time to download any changes from the Dropbox server before you open the project.

Upload and download aren’t instant processes. They take time, so slow down and you’lö be fine.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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parf
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:24 am Post

kewms:
1) It is on Autoclose. It does not help much, since sometimes it still fails to close, and, more importantly, you have to remember exactly when you used the mac for the last time: was it 55 min ago or 1 hour 03 min ago?
And, even more importantly, closing the Mac version does not force the iPad version to synchronize.
So, a realistic scenario – you are outside, with no internet, you are not sure if Mac app is closed, but you can’t synchronize iPad anyway. Solution? Write somewhere else, and then copy paste.
Not nice.
2) Ipad settings do not do much, since I don’t have a sim card in it. So, it’s always “on the WiFi”.
3) Synch Now button under the Binder does the same as the Projects synch button, that is – blocking all work for some minutes. Also, when I use it, Scrivener often crashes after some minutes of “Downloading file list”, without actually sending anything to the Dropbox.

lunk: unfortunately “slowing down” does not help at all – it is the question of planning (will I write on the iPad in 30 minutes or will I not?).
I mean – I do not have problems with corrupted files, because when in doubt I just don’t use Scrivener. But it is not an elegant solution.

... Oh yes, and you still have to remember to reset the session.

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lunk
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:42 am Post

parf wrote:... Oh yes, and you still have to remember to reset the session.

I don’t even know what that is and have never had any problems. What session is it you reset?

But yes, slowing down and not being in such a hurry will get you ample time to close things down and to let things synchronize. It’s just a question of habits.
If I am in a hurry and get an idea, I just Drafts 4, not iOS Scrivener. Write down the text, and send it off to the Scrivener Scratch Pad, where I can later pock it up and include it in the correct Scrivener document.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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parf
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:52 am Post

lunk wrote:
parf wrote:... Oh yes, and you still have to remember to reset the session.

I don’t even know what that is and have never had any problems. What session is it you reset?



Session target (daily words). It is set to update every night on the Mac, but not on the iPad

lunk wrote:But yes, slowing down and not being in such a hurry will get you ample time to close things down and to let things synchronize. It’s just a question of habits.
If I am in a hurry and get an idea, I just Drafts 4, not iOS Scrivener. Write down the text, and send it off to the Scrivener Scratch Pad, where I can later pock it up and include it in the correct Scrivener document.


I don't see at what moment exactly one has to slow down. We are talking about a situation when we are outside and want to write. If we postpone the writing "until the next time" it does not mean "slowing down", it means that we are inefficient as writers. If we use another app, as we actually do (Drafts, Evernote, Keep, Ulysses etc), it means that there's something wrong with Scrivener, not with us.

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lunk
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:07 am Post

parf wrote:I don't see at what moment exactly one has to slow down. We are talking about a situation when we are outside and want to write.

Oh, that’s a simple question. You just need to remeber to sync your iOS Scrivener once you get back home, or wherever you have WiFi, and not to open the project on the Mac until you’ve done this.
That’s when you have to slow down and be patient. One thing at a time. Finish on the iPad, and wait a bit before moving over to the Mac.
And you need to make sure that you have synced iOS Scrivener before going outside.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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parf
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:41 am Post

lunk wrote:
parf wrote:I don't see at what moment exactly one has to slow down. We are talking about a situation when we are outside and want to write.

Oh, that’s a simple question. You just need to remeber to sync your iOS Scrivener once you get back home, or wherever you have WiFi, and not to open the project on the Mac until you’ve done this.


No.

"Need to remember" does not have anything to do with "slow down". It's about "speed up", todo list and anxiety. Even if you sloooowly put on your shoes and slooooowly walk to the nearest park or library (a highly improbable situation nowadays, of course) with a public wifi spot, you can still not be quite sure when exactly you used the home computer, and wifi might be broken. So... no matter how slow you are trying to do things, you still cannot use Scrivener. Because if you do, and if for some reason it's not fully synchronized, your project will be messed up, no matter how quietly you sit and how patient you are.

It works in an ideal situation where wifi is everywhere and never breaks down, we always have extra 5-10 minutes before leaving, Scrivener never crushes during synchronization etc. Real world is slightly different.