Advantages of Leopard

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AmberV
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Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:57 pm Post

TextEdit, the shell application on top of the rich text system---let's just say it took me a while to even find anything new! It's pretty much identical to the Tiger version. I think the only new feature is "Prevent Editing" which is nice for distributing read me files I guess. The text engine hasn't really been addressed. There are some new import and export formats.

The text system in general, is probably the most disappointing thing about Leopard.
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KB
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Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:02 pm Post

Amber - exactly. I think I said the same a few posts back, or it may have been somewhere else. This has been especially disappointing to me in terms of Scrivener. Tiger brought bullet points and tables, but both as buggy as anything. The problems with bullets and tables haven't been addressed in Leopard. And the only noticeable addition from a user-perspective is grammar checking (which I turn off anyway - can't stand it in Word, for instance). There are some under-the-hood improvements and fixes, but ont much that a user would notice. Some are postulating that now that Apple have Pages, they are less interested in making the text system more powerful as they wouldn't want to help competition, but I'm not so sure that's true as, as far as I know, the team working on the text system is quite different to the one that works on Pages. The weird thing is, the text system engineers seem brilliant (from their responsiveness on the dev-lists), so I'm not sure why there is not a more noticeable bump in the text system. Personally, I would have liked to see a "page layout" view (not that Scrivener would have used it, but it would be good to see one without having to put it together manually all the time), improved RTF and DOC import/export (which at the very least supported images - I think it is very poor that they have implemented brand new .docx and .odt exporters which have exactly the same limitations - no images! - as the older exporters), hidden text support, bullet point and tables improvements and a few more public methods for the latter, too. Oh well...
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Keith

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brett
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Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:03 pm Post

Thanks, Amber and Keith. But darn. The Apple text engine was really in need of an overhaul. Since I use Bean, which has really added quite a few features in recent updates, I wasn't even hoping for new features in TextEdit so much, as I sort of like its minimalist feel. OK, I did hold out a secret desire for maybe a live word count display (although there's freeware that'll do the same thing to TextEdit) and a couple of other additions to bring it near to the old AppleWorks word processor or WriteNow level. And of course improvements to the Apple text engine would have perforce enhanced Scrivener and other apps dependent on it.

I hope you're right, Keith, that it's not about Apple trying to encourage us to buy Pages; spiffy as it in some ways (better than MS Word, for sure) Pages is overkill for my needs, not to mention its deficiencies as enumerated on this forum and elsewhere.

Oh well. Guess I'll just keep using the excellent Bean, which now has just about everything I need in a writing application -- and, just as important, almost nothing more - as the default app. for my rtf and text files. I found out about it here and recommend it to everyone. (I have Mellel but was confounded by its interface and stopped using it some time ago, after improvements in Scrivener and then Bean make it unnecessary for my uses.) Of course, Scrivener is much more than just a writing app, and will ever remain the indispensable program on my Mac.

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KB
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Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:29 pm Post

On the other hand, from a developer's point of view, there is a wealth of improvements. There's a good overview here:

http://mattgemmell.com/2007/10/28/get-r ... th-leopard

Scrivener has loads of code just dealing with the toolbar, for instance. It also use a class I coded myself just to manage different views. The image view is my own. I've had to customise table views and outline views just to provide contextual menus. I had to modify the split view to get it to look like the one in Mail. Custom buttons all need several images. I would need very little of that code if I was just starting out in Leopard. It even looks as though I could get rid of a lot of the corkboard code using the new collection view to handle a lot of it. Of course, it doesn't help much when you have to remain backwards-compatible with Tiger, but in a couple of years when I start thinking about 2.0, there is a lot in Leopard that will make my job easier...

Best,
Keith

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Gareth
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Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:11 am Post

KB wrote:..but in a couple of years when I start thinking about 2.0, there is a lot in Leopard that will make my job easier...


We'll be on 10.6 "Civet" by then.

But you'll have a book in hand.

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Now available: The Aviator - a speculative fiction involving airships, AIs, and the elixir of life (which is cheese), set in a world being hammered by climate change - The Burning World. "Brilliant and wickedly satirical" - Sonny Whitelaw.

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AmberV
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Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:26 pm Post

Full Screen mode in Scrivener + new Aurora background in Leopard with 75% black tinting on the background using Scrivener's slider?

Priceless!
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Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:56 pm Post

Well, I just upgraded to Leopard. I like it, except for a couple of things - you can't close the Sidebar without also closing the Toolbar, and you can't have a folder in the Dock that isn't a Stack. Plus the Stack icon being whatever is first in order in the stack is annoying...for some stacks it could be nice, but for others I'd prefer to have a custom icon. Oh, well - just nitpicky stuff.

The ability to change the icon grid spacing makes up for the downfalls. :D
And that, my Liege, is how we know the earth to be banana-shaped.

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Gaijin de Moscu
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Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:04 pm Post

Khadrelt wrote:Well, I just upgraded to Leopard. I like it, except for a couple of things - you can't close the Sidebar without also closing the Toolbar, and you can't have a folder in the Dock that isn't a Stack. Plus the Stack icon being whatever is first in order in the stack is annoying...for some stacks it could be nice, but for others I'd prefer to have a custom icon. Oh, well - just nitpicky stuff.

The ability to change the icon grid spacing makes up for the downfalls. :D


Will this help?

http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860


or straight from here:

http://www2.datacraft.co.jp/~chida/icon/

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david_b
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Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:43 pm Post

Khadrelt wrote:you can't have a folder in the Dock that isn't a Stack.
Maybe this will help: oldfolder ?

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dixonge
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Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:06 pm Post

I just did an upgrade install the Saturday or Sunday after the release day. No archive. Install was flawless. Finally rearranged my external drive location so that I have Time Machine up and running. Backed up my XP boxes over the network to the ext. drive attached to the MacBook. Then I proceeded to back all that up to Mozy.com online. I now have three copies of everything important.

I have had no significant problems with Leopard. I am printing to my Lexmark printer attached to a Windoze box over my wireless network (NetGear wireless router). I love stacks, especially the download folder. My desktop is cleaner than ever.

So far my fave feature is QuickLook - click a file, hit space bar, voila - THEN, while the quicklook window is open, just click on another file and its preview will show up in the existing window. Genius.

TimeMachine is cool visually - hope I never need to use it though

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Lord Lightning
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:40 am Post

So, you upgraded to Leopard as a new adopter.

MMMmmm!

Here's an interesting, substantiated, view on Leopard.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2223921,00.asp


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Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:01 am Post

Lord Lightning wrote:Here's an interesting, substantiated, view on Leopard.


Snort

He's just strident for hits.

Leopard's great. It has problems, yes, but overall I find the hysteric reports of having to go back to Tiger in order to be able to work rather . . . hysteric.

And what's with this insane bloviation all 'round the net over the dock? Works fine. Don't notice it.

Time Machine? I can think of 20 people who will backup their systems now because it's so easy. (Which is its target population is it not?)

It's worth the upgrade price.

Dave

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antony
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:25 am Post

I don't know that 'substantiated' is really an appropriate word for that trolling piece. He doesn't know what Stacks are called, doesn't know about using Time Machine over a network, doesn't seem to understand the substantial differences between Shadow Copy and Time Machine, and apparently doesn't know about the (heavily advertised) spacebar QuickLook shortcut.

It's a shame, because he makes a few good (if unoriginal) points - the dropping Windows shares, the blue indicator lights in the dock, and lack of block-level backup in Time Machine. But they're drowned in a sea of rubbish that damages the credibility of the whole article.
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xiamenese
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:11 pm Post

I couldn't get beyond the first few paragraphs. If he has that sort of trouble he should look at his set-up. Makes me wonder about how he sets about doing upgrades.

I installed Leopard last weekend (1st version MBP 17") ... backed up everything and did a clean install, re-installed the software I use all the time ...

So far I've only had zero problems, it boots much faster, apps open up faster. I haven't yet set up Time Machine or reinstalled Synchronize! Pro X to do the back-ups because I have to sort out my external drives. I need to keep a bootable one with Tiger on as I only have the original CS suite, and it seems that won't run well under Leopard and I use In Design a fair bit. So I need to move data around so I can have a bootable disk with Tiger on it and those apps and another bootable back-up of the main hard disk.

But I'm sure backing up will continue to be a cinch!

:)

Mark

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Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:33 pm Post

Gaijin de Moscu: Thanks for the link. I've thought about adding a 'perma-icon' that's always on top to my Stacks, and while it works, I just wish there was a more elegant solution - but it's better than nothing.

david_b: Thanks - Oldfolder works pretty well.

I also solved one of my own problems, in case anyone's interested. There were certain folders I wanted in the Dock that I didn't want to be stacks - I just wanted them to open the folder in the Finder. I can't believe I didn't think of it earlier, but the workaround is to put an alias of the folder in the Dock instead of the folder itself. Then it opens the folder in the Finder instead of as a Stack.

As for that foaming-at the-mouth 'review,' I really have to agree with xiamenese. I haven't had a single crash since updating. He must be doing something seriously wrong to be having that much trouble. I'd have to chalk most of his problems up to the famous 'PEBKAC' error - 'Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.'
And that, my Liege, is how we know the earth to be banana-shaped.