WIndows 3 Release: My Thoughts

[gerdio]

I don't speak any German, but can anybody confirm that Patchwork costs 130+euros?

That's a lot of bones. On the hand they have already released their V3 for both MAC and WINDOWS....

Ja, ich denke das ist richtig. (courtesy google translate)

Price drops to 99 euros if you don't want the grammar/spell checking add-on called Duden. Or you can get a Duden-less 26/mo subscription.

Best,
Jim

If you don't write in German, paying for the "Duden" wouldn't make any sense. (Actually, the "Duden" is the best known German dictionary, kind of the equivalent to the Oxford English Dictionary. Kind of, until the spelling reform of 1996 it was even normative, not only descriptive. But I guess nobody wants to know that ...)

One little correction, the price of € 26,- is not a subscription model, it's actually payment by installment. Four times € 26,-.

[JimRac]

If you don't write in German, paying for the "Duden" wouldn't make any sense. (Actually, the "Duden" is the best known German dictionary, kind of the equivalent to the Oxford English Dictionary. Kind of, until the spelling reform of 1996 it was even normative, not only descriptive. But I guess nobody wants to know that ...)

One little correction, the price of € 26,- is not a subscription model, it's actually payment by installment. Four times € 26,-.

Ah, that all makes sense. Thanks for the clarification! I learned something today.

[Claudia]

I'd be okay with a different but just as cool version that does what I need in Windows in perhaps slightly different ways. And to say it needs to be on par with Word... Well IMO Scriv for Mac is better than Word, but then again you have to pay a lot more for Office. If you are paying $45 stop complaining overmuch. Fair enough to ask for features. IMO.

[darrenrobinson777]

I completely agree.
The Windows 3 Beta has been in development for how many years???? On top of that, exactly as you said, you can't open older versions in Windows.

The reason I'm annoyed is simply because the new version should already be there and I don't understand why the Mac version has been prioritized. Now, I've been waiting for quite some time now. I've been patient. Downloaded the new beta. Been patient, Downloaded a new beta. Been patient, downloaded a new beta and so on. You get the picture ... And yes, I have read all those comments about how much easier it is in MacOS blahblahblah and it just seems patronizing to me. If you officially support two platforms you also have to actually support both of them, period. It's been years now!

And I have to admit that part of my annoyance also comes from the simple fact that I have two Scrivener projects in v3 that don't open in v1.9

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[Bradley310]

These two viewpoints reflect two different experiences, and I think we ought to be able to put down our pea shooters long enough to acknowledge that there is valid experience on both sides. Long-time users are not just being cultishly defensive; newer users are not just whining. And neither group is getting jack done that is worth anything while sniping and counter-sniping at the others (and do remember, it's just pea shooters).

Without a doubt the most well-thought, respectful thing I've read in these forums.

[AgedWriter]

I think the divide we're seeing is between long-time and relatively long-time Scrivener users (like me), on the one hand, and people who bought the program a year or so ago.

The former have been around long enough to get to know Lit & Lat and its staff, and appreciate their dedication, integrity, and hard work. We're disappointed and chagrined about how long v. 3 is taking; but we also know how small a shop it is, how unwilling they are to ship an advanced beta as a finished product, and how useful either v. 1.9 or the advanced beta of v. 3 actually is.

The latter, as ensorcell exemplifies, bought a program that they thought was going to be updated to v. 3 in the very near future, based on statements L&L was making at the time. Those statements were regrettable and regrettably off-target, and L&L has regretted them, publicly and more than once. But that doesn't change the fact that they were made, and that they raised certain expectations in new customers.

These two viewpoints reflect two different experiences, and I think we ought to be able to put down our pea shooters long enough to acknowledge that there is valid experience on both sides. Long-time users are not just being cultishly defensive; newer users are not just whining. And neither group is getting jack done that is worth anything while sniping and counter-sniping at the others (and do remember, it's just pea shooters).

Ensorcell's question "When does someone draw a line and start throwing resources at getting Version 3 for Windows completed?" seems reasonable, except that there just aren't any more resources to throw. Please do remember the pittance you paid for Scrivener. It's intentionally priced for starving artists to buy; but that means starving the development staff in turn.

Devinganger, you've helped countless people solve real, solvable problems on these forums (another thing that newcomers, focusing only on the release date issue, may not know). But IMO (note lack of H), snark like "self-important screed" and "Oh, you're cute too" is worse than unhelpful. Put tacks in your pea shooter if you want; just be careful not to inhale. (And don't try telling me I'm cute; I already know. )

Bottom line: very few people come here just to be aggravating: they're frustrated, they need help, they want to help. A little bit of considering the other person's perspective can go a long way toward (heh) de-visualizing whirled peas.

A very thoughtful post. And really, very much appreciated. I thought I was alone in my frustration. Now I see its not the case.

I've only posted a few times but the divided camp you describe seems pretty accurate.There is another way to consider the divide. Those who are indifferent to the notion of their key software being shut down mid project because the company making it can't or won't be honest with the customer base, or those who need to know that software they are depending on will be around and issues fixed. As far as your comment "... A little bit of considering the other person's perspective can go a long way..." there are just people who feel entitled to do that kind of thing, here and everywhere-and they'll never take advice.

And yes, we could all just continue to use the original Windows version. A version that is already behind several Windows updates. And if the Windows project gets abandoned we still have operating software many Windows revisions behind. Until something breaks. Usually mid project or just before a deadline as those things tend to happen. Just one windows update away. Or, perhaps like myself,consider buying a Mac just to use the better version. Which seems ridiculous.

I have also see comments about 'flailing a dead horse' and how those people should stop complaining because L&L is aware and the complaints aren't going to make any difference to the project. If true,doesn't that pretty much validate the companies indifference? And its strange if not bizarre to be treating customers that way. Which really says more than the endless multiyear missed deadlines.

[AgedWriter]

You can consider it whatever you want, but that doesn't make you right. Vaporware is things like flying cars.

noun: vaporware
software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed

Nothing more to say here. That you decide to clip a definition ad hoc thinking that the other part would not copy and paste a dictionary definition... I insist: until the moment anyone can buy, download and use Scrivener Version 3 for Windows, a product on par with the Mac version as announced almost 3 years ago, such product it's still vaporware, no matter how many months the free upgrade will ever span, no matter how many partially functional demos and betas the company releases.

I'm glad that Scrivener fulfils your needs to such a degree that you feel compelled to defend the with a zealotry worthy of religious sites when discussing dogmas but, all caveat considered, and nobody denies that V1.9.x has not equal in windows, the company has yet to produced the promised product. And it had to accept that many people bought the product thinking that soon would enjoy the same ring and bells that the Mac counterpart. And, that caveats and legalese aside, announcements like August 30th and the it's a matter of weeks not months, among many others, led many to buy the product expecting a parity that probably will not take place ever.

Agree. Once upon a time there was a 'Golden Vaporware" award. Maybe we should nominate L&L.

[RuffPub]

, led many to buy the product expecting a parity that probably will not take place ever.

Agree. Once upon a time there was a 'Golden Vaporware" award. Maybe we should nominate L&L.

1. The promise was as close to parity as the operating system differences will allow. I don’t believe there was ever a promise for total parity. That said it’s pretty f.cking close to parity. (I’m Australian, here we’d include the u, but left it out for fear of melting snowflakes.)

2. It exists in a solid, useable beta, therefore it is not vapourware. It’s just not ‘chargeableware’ yet.

[AgedWriter]

, led many to buy the product expecting a parity that probably will not take place ever.

Agree. Once upon a time there was a 'Golden Vaporware" award. Maybe we should nominate L&L.

1. The promise was as close to parity as the operating system differences will allow. I don’t believe there was ever a promise for total parity. That said it’s pretty f.cking close to parity. (I’m Australian, here we’d include the u, but left it out for fear of melting snowflakes.)

2. It exists in a solid, useable beta, therefore it is not vapourware. It’s just not ‘chargeableware’ yet.

Not sure how 'parity' got connected to my own comments, 'parity' is not an issue for me although it might be if L&L ever actually release the final product. Be that as it may-this endless golden vaporware project is beyond ridiculous.

I've solved my own problem by ordering a Mac, which will give me the option to buy the current generation version should I decide I just can't live without. As someone pointed out buying 'Adobe 1.0' in a Adobe 10x universe is just not an option. I will say I'm having second thoughts about buying anything from any company that would so obviously care less about their future customers.

[RuffPub]

I've solved my own problem by ordering a Mac, which will give me the option to buy the current generation version should I decide I just can't live without. As someone pointed out buying 'Adobe 1.0' in a Adobe 10x universe is just not an option. I will say I'm having second thoughts about buying anything from any company that would so obviously care less about their future customers.

1. Congratulations on buying a superior machine. Much as I'm sure Apple appreciate the sale, you could have just used the Win V3 beta for free and saved the $$$..
2. ...'obviously care less'...You've made a wild accusation. Care to support it with any fact? I see a company that cares very much, providing great tech support and developing the best long for writing app anywhere. PERIOD! (to quote some political hack.)

The Win beta 3 is progressing and already far superior to any other Win option out there. Could they have communicated a little better, yes, but if you bother to read Keith's recent blog post, they've taken it on the chin and are using it as learning experience.

[AmberV]

Be that as it may-this endless golden vaporware project is beyond ridiculous.

For vapourware, it sure does have an awfully material download link. I will admit it is red instead of gold, however, though I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing, from how you phrased it.