iCloud Sync

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sidderke
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Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:49 am Post

Rayz wrote:As I said, it’s a tough one to wrestle with.


Agreed.

BTW, I read today on Twitter that the new Files app in iOS 13 lets you pin files AND folders, which will stay offline available on your device, and download changes immediately when they happen (from any other device), now, which wasn't possible before. You didn't have any control of what iCloud kept downloaded on your device. Don't know if again if this makes a difference for Scrivener, but it is interesting in the light of this discussion because I thought one of the problems with iCloud was that it choose what to download and what to keep in the cloud inside a Scrivener project, thus corrupting files. Don't know if this new pin-option would help, if it would mean users should pin the whole Scrivener folder before using it with iOS. (a bit like now you have to make a Scrivener folder in Dropbox before using the iOS version with automatic sync)

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kewms
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Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:05 pm Post

sidderke wrote:BTW, I read today on Twitter that the new Files app in iOS 13 lets you pin files AND folders, which will stay offline available on your device, and download changes immediately when they happen (from any other device), now, which wasn't possible before. You didn't have any control of what iCloud kept downloaded on your device. Don't know if again if this makes a difference for Scrivener, but it is interesting in the light of this discussion because I thought one of the problems with iCloud was that it choose what to download and what to keep in the cloud inside a Scrivener project, thus corrupting files. Don't know if this new pin-option would help, if it would mean users should pin the whole Scrivener folder before using it with iOS. (a bit like now you have to make a Scrivener folder in Dropbox before using the iOS version with automatic sync)


You're describing the iCloud "Optimize storage" feature, which is indeed an enormous problem for Mac-to-Mac sharing. But it's not really relevant to the Mac-to-iOS synchronization issues.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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sidderke
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Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:32 pm Post

kewms wrote:You're describing the iCloud "Optimize storage" feature, which is indeed an enormous problem for Mac-to-Mac sharing. But it's not really relevant to the Mac-to-iOS synchronization issues.


Bummer but thanks for the clarification.

de
defjaf
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Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:14 pm Post

Dear Keith &c,
KB wrote:2. I would have to rewrite Scrivener from the ground up to support it. iCloud *does* support file packages - although I'm not sure how it would handle those of Scrivener's complexity and potential size - but not the way Scrivener does them. And almost everything in Scrivener is built on its file handling. So it's not something that can ever just be patched in - I'd need to take the very core of Scrivener apart and start again.

Thanks for this succinct (re-?) statement of your position. This helps clarify things, for me, at least. I'm disappointed, and I admit that I'm moving to Ulysses for my current book project — I still miss some of Scrivener's capabilities, but fast and painless syncing, combined with enough multi-tasking on both iPad and Mac to enable the use of other apps to take over some of those capabilities, is a win for me and my workflow at this point.

But I'll continue to support L&L (i.e., buy updates if and when they come along!) and hope that things do, indeed, move in this direction over the medium or at least long term.

Br
Brammy
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Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:42 pm Post

defjaf wrote:Thanks for this succinct (re-?) statement of your position. This helps clarify things, for me, at least. I'm disappointed, and I admit that I'm moving to Ulysses for my current book project — I still miss some of Scrivener's capabilities, but fast and painless syncing, combined with enough multi-tasking on both iPad and Mac to enable the use of other apps to take over some of those capabilities, is a win for me and my workflow at this point.

But I'll continue to support L&L (i.e., buy updates if and when they come along!) and hope that things do, indeed, move in this direction over the medium or at least long term.


I am not quite at your point, but I am taking a hard look at whether Dropbox is that important to me. Scrivener is the only app I use that requires Dropbox for syncing. However, the smart sync feature they moved out of Business into Plus is nice.

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Silverdragon
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Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:04 pm Post

Okay, I'm the odd person out, here. I loathe iCloud. I hope L&L never eliminate Dropbox support because I'm increasingly frustrated by developers who are moving to iCloud only. I don't pay extra for more iCloud space, and I hope I never have to. Dropbox has always worked well for me with regards to Scrivener Mac <-> iOS syncing.

That said, I agree that it would be nice if Dropbox had an entry-level paid tier that was less than two terabytes and $120 USD per annum(!) Not that $120 isn't a fair price for two terabytes, but 50 gigabytes would suit. Nonetheless, I'm revamping my cloud services and will go to paid Dropbox, eliminating Google Drive (which I like better than iCloud, but I trust Google less), and continuing to minimise my iCloud use as much as practical.

L&L, I hope I represent the silent majority, here. So far as I'm concerned, if iCloud sync never happens, that will be just fine with me.
So you know where I'm coming from:
  • I write fiction. I'm not an L&L employee.
  • Mac Scrivener 3.1.4, MacBook Air 11, MacOS 10.14.6 (Mojave)
  • IOS Scrivener 1.2; iPhone 8+, iPad 6th gen; iOS 13.1.3
  • Website: https://silverdrag0n.wordpress.com

Br
Brammy
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Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:05 pm Post

Silverdragon wrote:Okay, I'm the odd person out, here. I loathe iCloud. I hope L&L never eliminate Dropbox support because I'm increasingly frustrated by developers who are moving to iCloud only. I don't pay extra for more iCloud space, and I hope I never have to. Dropbox has always worked well for me with regards to Scrivener Mac <-> iOS syncing.

That said, I agree that it would be nice if Dropbox had an entry-level paid tier that was less than two terabytes and $120 USD per annum(!) Not that $120 isn't a fair price for two terabytes, but 50 gigabytes would suit. Nonetheless, I'm revamping my cloud services and will go to paid Dropbox, eliminating Google Drive (which I like better than iCloud, but I trust Google less), and continuing to minimise my iCloud use as much as practical.

L&L, I hope I represent the silent majority, here. So far as I'm concerned, if iCloud sync never happens, that will be just fine with me.


My fervent hope is we get a choice: Dropbox for those who like it; OneDrive for folks who use that; iCloud for those who want that.

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lunk
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Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:52 pm Post

I use ghe Agenda app. It initially only had iCloud sync and users were for Dropbox syncing.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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RorydEon
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Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:45 pm Post

Dropbox has become, for many users, unfriendly, bloated and restrictive. If there was a Dropbox lite that simply did sync I’m sure many would still not mind it so much. As it’s evolved, I’ve begun to steer away from it.
Maybe it’s time to consider rewriting scrivener for iCloud sync.
Rory

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rayl
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Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:11 pm Post

Well, a lot of other users are finding Dropbox works perfectly for them. Rewriting the software to accommodate a particular synching platform seems ... overkill?.

R

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lunk
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Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:02 pm Post

RorydEon wrote:If there was a Dropbox lite that simply did sync I’m sure many would still not mind it so much.

There is. The free basic version.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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xiamenese
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Location: London or Exeter, UK.

Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:07 pm Post

RorydEon wrote:<snip>
Maybe it’s time to consider rewriting scrivener for iCloud sync.
Rory

KB wrote:I would have to rewrite Scrivener from the ground up to support it. iCloud *does* support file packages - although I'm not sure how it would handle those of Scrivener's complexity and potential size - but not the way Scrivener does them. And almost everything in Scrivener is built on its file handling. So it's not something that can ever just be patched in - I'd need to take the very core of Scrivener apart and start again.

I'm not saying (2) is never going to happen - but it's not something that could be done in a few months.

And of course, KB wouldn't have time to update Scrivener for iOS, or Scapple, or have time to think about Scapple for iOS …

I've been using Dropbox for about a decade and have never had a problem with it; I built up 6.2GB of Space on my free account, and have 3 computers, an iPAD and an iPhone hooked up to it. Although I have Scrivener for iOS on the latter 2, I hardly ever open it, as most of what I do is in collaboration with a Windows-using friend in China, where dropbox is blocked—which is not Dropbox's fault—so we use Sync, and I am happier with the UI on my MBPs, like another poster.

If I change any of my iOS devices, so that I'm restricted, I'll simply not bother with iOS Scriv.

Mark
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
rMBP 13" (early 2015) 10.14.5, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSID
2017 iPad, iOS 12.3.1, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

de
derick
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Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:47 pm Post

seriously what is “bloated, unfriendly and restrictive” about dropbox?!?

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Brammy
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Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:43 pm Post

derick wrote:seriously what is “bloated, unfriendly and restrictive” about dropbox?!?


They have added some new features: GoogleDocs, Office, Zoom Slack interaction that are probably more appealing to enterprise customers than consumers. As a result, the app now consumes 500mb of memory. I have 16gb on my Mac so that's not an issue, but for others it might be.

They also raised the price and knocked the free device limit to 3. You can grandfather in more devices, but as soon as you add a new device the 3 device rule comes into affect.

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xiamenese
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Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:33 pm Post

Brammy wrote:
derick wrote:seriously what is “bloated, unfriendly and restrictive” about dropbox?!?


They have added some new features: GoogleDocs, Office, Zoom Slack interaction that are probably more appealing to enterprise customers than consumers. As a result, the app now consumes 500mb of memory. I have 16gb on my Mac so that's not an issue, but for others it might be.

They also raised the price and knocked the free device limit to 3. You can grandfather in more devices, but as soon as you add a new device the 3 device rule comes into affect.

On my !3" MBP, I have 8GB memory, of which Dropbox consumes 194Mb; it's more than Sync, but is hardly "bloated".

Mark
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
rMBP 13" (early 2015) 10.14.5, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSID
2017 iPad, iOS 12.3.1, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …