Passing on Scrivener for now

Ji
JimRac
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:06 pm
Platform: Win + iOS

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:34 am Post

FamilyHandyman wrote:
...what difference does it make that Win Scrivener is different from Mac Scrivener?


(struggling to keep calm) Please don't behave like the stereotypical pandering Mac user. Try empathy, walk a mile in a Windows user's shoes. Imagine the reverse: if you paid the EXACT SAME AMOUNT for Mac version with half the features of the Windows version. Your updates come 2 to 3 times slower. Deadlines for your version keep slipping. Promises broken to Mac OS customers. Android gets more updates that your Mac OS version. Etc...

Would you still say "...what difference does it make that Mac Scrivener is different from Windows Scrivener?"

Windows CUSTOMERS are not feeling developer love. :cry:

Hi FamilyHandyman,

Was that the bolded red bit above your simple question?

If so, as a Windows user, my answer is: "Yes, it doesn't make any difference that the Mac version is different than the Windows version."

Wanna know why? Because I use Windows, and it's the best writing software I've found for Windows. I've written dozens of stories with it, and am 100k+ into a novel, so all these supposed missing features haven't seemed to hurt my productivity.

I don't own a Mac and have no intention of doing so, so why the frick would I care about the Mac version?

Best,
Jim
I’m just a customer.

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kewms
Posts: 5729
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:22 pm
Platform: Mac

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:55 am Post

FamilyHandyman wrote:No, they have not explained it and certainly not several times in this thread. I asked why it's not released as full 3.0 version if the current beta is stable and ready. Nobody has explained why. Please, someone explain answer the question WHY.


The current Win Scrivener 3 beta is neither feature-complete nor stable enough for production use. Both of which you could have discovered for yourself through a brief visit to the Windows Beta forum.

Why on earth would we hold the release back for so much as a nanosecond if we thought it was ready?

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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kewms
Posts: 5729
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:22 pm
Platform: Mac

Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:02 am Post

FamilyHandyman wrote:
2. The current Win version is a fully functional best in (Win) class application.

That's what I keep hearing, but I don't understand if it's fully functional why it hasn't been a full release.


Huh? The current version of Windows Scrivener is 1.9.9. It was released last October.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

Pa
PascualLong

Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:32 am Post

OMG I'm sorry, I take fully responsibility. I'm sorry. I apologize. You're right I was crass. I went too far on that one. I agree I did accuse them.

I think I had a bad brain episode today. I'll get myself stuck on something dumb and it never ends well, just like here today.

I'm really embarrassed. If you don't mind I'd like to delete all my comments today and slink away. I'll pay full price for your software. Whenever it comes out this year or next year or whennot.

I'm sorry


JimRac wrote:
Hi FamilyHandyMan,

It was you. You were being rude. Here are examples:

FamilyHandyman wrote:
Please don't behave like the stereotypical pandering Mac user.

That, in your very first post to the forums. Congratulations on insulting the Mac community.

FamilyHandyman wrote:
What if you buy Photoshop but your OS version is basically Paint?

There, in your second post, you denigrate the Win 1.9 product and the L&L Win dev team.

FamilyHandyman wrote:
Bait & Switch: the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods which are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods.

Your third post accuses L&L of using a nasty trick to get customers to buy their product.

I'll stop here, as this thread likely will be deleted, so this is probably a waste of time. But in your first 3 posts you managed to insult Mac users once and L&L twice. So yeah, it's you dude.

Jim

Please have patience with me, I used to be a software developer until I had a brain tumor a few years ago. 2018 UPDATE Had my 2nd tumor! Now on Chemo! Yay! Third time should be the trick (death), so trying to make the most of my time.

Ji
JimRac
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:06 pm
Platform: Win + iOS

Fri May 10, 2019 10:38 pm Post

Hi mopa5004,

If you want to see where the Windows version is heading, there is a beta in progress.

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=57

Best,
Jim
I’m just a customer.

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Sanguinius
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:16 pm
Platform: Windows

Sat May 11, 2019 7:16 pm Post

mopa5004 wrote:
JimRac wrote:Hi mopa5004,

If you want to see where the Windows version is heading, there is a beta in progress.

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=57

Best,
Jim

Please have patience with me, I used to be a software developer until I had a brain tumor a few years ago. 2018 UPDATE Had my 2nd tumor! Now on Chemo! Yay! Third time should be the trick (death), so trying to make the most of my time.
Links removed.

Why are you linking porn sites in your comments? And why is this comment nearly identical to the end of a completely different user's comments four months ago?

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devinganger
Posts: 1873
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Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: Monroe, WA 98272 (CN97au)
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Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:05 am Post

lunk wrote:The only promise I’ve seen so far is that those who bought a Win Scrivener license from 20th November 2017 and onwards will get a free upgrade to Win Scrivener 3 when it arrives.


I know this is an old thread, but the official Scrivener for Windows page says August 20 2017, not November. Yet one of the Scrivener 3 blog posts switches it to November. Which one is correct?
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Winner "Best in Class", 2018 My First Supervillain Photo Shoot

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Nightmarian
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:14 am
Platform: Windows

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:17 pm Post

StarDog2 wrote:
kewms wrote:Your writing is your writing. Do whatever makes you most productive.

I'm always confused by this line of thinking, though. Unless you're planning to buy a Mac, what difference does it make that Win Scrivener is different from Mac Scrivener? As a Windows user, your choice is between Scrivener and other applications that work on PCs.

Katherine


Yuup! The Windows version is functional, and for many, still lightyears ahead of the Windows competition! I'll concede that it isn't very pretty, but comparing it to the Mac version seems pointless. Compare it, instead to the other Windows titles that are out there. I think it still competes very well. If you just can't get past the older UI, there ARE quite good alternatives, but none have the exact same set of features.

That is why competition is so good for the consumer, We get choices!


People compare them because they don't like the idea of paying the same price for the same product and yet having one be functionally and visually inferior to another because of platform choice. I would think tha't pretty obvious. If there were better options many of us probably would have jumped ship, but lack of competition is never a positive for consumers, so I'm not sure why you'd note that with a smile.

Lack of parity betwen mac and windows is an issue for a only a few programs and there are very reasonable alternatives, though most of the major programs enjoy strong parity (Adobe suite, for one).

If the Windows version were $20 as a nod for always been inferior to the $40 dollar mac version, then you could make a case...

Maybe you don't agree with the perspective, but pretending it isn't valid or comprehendible is kind of silly. It's a pretty simple concept and I'm extremely positive that you're smarter than that.

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kewms
Posts: 5729
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:22 pm
Platform: Mac

Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:18 pm Post

Nightmarian wrote:Lack of parity betwen mac and windows is an issue for a only a few programs and there are very reasonable alternatives, though most of the major programs enjoy strong parity (Adobe suite, for one).

If the Windows version were $20 as a nod for always been inferior to the $40 dollar mac version, then you could make a case...


Or I could point out that the Adobe Creative Cloud costs more than $50. Per month.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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devinganger
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Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:37 pm Post

Nightmarian wrote:If the Windows version were $20 as a nod for always been inferior to the $40 dollar mac version, then you could make a case...


Perhaps a little perspective would help? When Scrivener 3.x came out for Mac, the price only went up by $5.

If I remember correctly, the pricing for the Windows 1.x series is comparable to what the pricing for the Mac 2.x series was. Given that the Windows 1.x series ended up being mostly equivalent to Scrivener 2.x, I don't think that's an unreasonable amount to charge.

Most software packages that have essentially identical functionality between platforms do so in one of two ways:

1) They use a multi-platform development environment from the ground up. While this makes development easier, it tends to lesson the integration with whatever native features your various operating systems offer, without a ton more work for your development team.

2) They write their own codebase for key features, like text and graphics rendering. This is the approach that Adobe, Microsoft, et al use. This takes a large development team and a lot of money to throw at the problem, and usually raises the final software price significantly -- but it can be worth it because it can lower the costs of support once your product is released. I personally believe this is one of the factors behind the popularity of subscription software models.

Many of the key features of Scrivener come from the fact it is a native Mac app, and KB took advantage of features within the Mac OS and used them in unusual ways (Scrivenings, the package format, etc.) The Windows version is not built off the same codebase -- it is really a port into Qt (originally chosen so it could fill in some of the gap between what Mac OS offered and what Windows and Linux offered). The Windows version has to re-write all of the code (in a different programming language) that the Mac version uses, *plus* write even more code to fill in the gaps between Mac OS and Qt.

With all of that, we're actually fairly lucky they don't charge *more* for the Windows version -- it requires twice the number of developers.
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Winner "Best in Class", 2018 My First Supervillain Photo Shoot

As
Astaff
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:11 pm
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:28 pm Post

A
Nightmarian wrote:
If the Windows version were $20 as a nod for always been inferior to the $40 dollar mac version, then you could make a case...

Maybe you don't agree with the perspective, but pretending it isn't valid or comprehendible is kind of silly. It's a pretty simple concept and I'm extremely positive that you're smarter than that.


I guess that explains why Windows PCs are cheaper than Macs. Always visually and functionally inferior. Good of you to point it out. “Maybe you don't agree with the perspective, but pretending it isn't valid or comprehendible is kind of silly. It's a pretty simple concept and I'm extremely positive that you're smarter than that.”

Seriously, the Win v 1.9 is functionally equivalent. You write, you output.

V3 beta is as close to Mac V3 as Windows allows given L&L resources.

Rather than whinge and demand a cheaper price, perhaps be appreciative that everyone who purchased after late 2017 gets a free upgrade. Point to any other developer offering that great a deal!

St
StarDog2
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:30 am
Platform: Windows

Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:37 am Post

Astaff wrote:A
Nightmarian wrote:Rather than whinge and demand a cheaper price, perhaps be appreciative that everyone who purchased after late 2017 gets a free upgrade. Point to any other developer offering that great a deal!


Amen, Brother! Can I have a witness?!?