Per Project Personal Word list

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devinganger
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Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:29 pm Post

BigT29 wrote:As said, it supports a single custom word list already and from what I've seen this feature should also be in the IoS/Macos version. assuming they both use wordlist.ini (what the windows version uses)


This is the point I keep making. macOS and iOS use the built-in OS-provided spelling system which doesn't use wordlist.ini, nor does it (as far as I am aware) give you direct access to where the learned words are stored. You get API calls that your application makes, but it's the black-box OS service that does the actual checking.

Windows, of course, doesn't have such an OS-provided service, so the Scrivener implementation for Windows uses a third-party system. That third party system is not designed to provide per-project word lists, but because it's bolted on you have the workaround of seeing where the word list file is stored.
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BigT29
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Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:48 pm Post

devinganger wrote:
BigT29 wrote:As said, it supports a single custom word list already and from what I've seen this feature should also be in the IoS/Macos version. assuming they both use wordlist.ini (what the windows version uses)


This is the point I keep making. macOS and iOS use the built-in OS-provided spelling system which doesn't use wordlist.ini, nor does it (as far as I am aware) give you direct access to where the learned words are stored. You get API calls that your application makes, but it's the black-box OS service that does the actual checking.

Windows, of course, doesn't have such an OS-provided service, so the Scrivener implementation for Windows uses a third-party system. That third party system is not designed to provide per-project word lists, but because it's bolted on you have the workaround of seeing where the word list file is stored.

Okay so I get that doing it for MAc is a no go (starting to see why they lost out so big ) but we're already 3/5th of the way to the feature.

Aby way i've already got my work around set up, it's just rather strange that something like this has to be a work around.

As is I just have multiple wordlist ini fils. The main one, and wordlist.<shortname of project>

The first item in every wordlist is the shorthand name for the project it belongs to. WHen I want to swap I just

  • change the current wordlist.ini to wordlst.<shortname> (peeking at the list to remind myself if necessary)
  • change the wordlist for the project i wish to work on to wordlist.ini.
  • Exit and restart Scrivener.

While i find it hard to believe the devs could find a way to automate those three steps, But then again, I can't see the source code so.

As is I'll see what I can do to whip up a handy applet to automate that, maybe throw in a user interface,

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devinganger
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Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:44 am Post

It's probably not that hard for them to automate -- but now that's a feature that Windows has that Mac and iOS *can't* have. What happens to the custom word list for those of us who sync projects between multiple platforms? That'll cause more support tickets than just not having the feature to begin with.
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krastev
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Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:35 am Post

devinganger wrote:It's probably not that hard for them to automate -- but now that's a feature that Windows has that Mac and iOS *can't* have. What happens to the custom word list for those of us who sync projects between multiple platforms? That'll cause more support tickets than just not having the feature to begin with.

As I already pointed out this is a false argument. There are already, and will always be, features, that are available on Mac and are not available on Windows and vice versa.
For example: Linguistic Focus.
The custom learned words, even now, DO NOT get synchronized between Mac and Windows, and never will, nor anyone asks for that. I don't understand why do you continue to give this as an example of a possible conflict since it's not.
iOS doesn't support a lot of things, that both other operating systems have to offer. Fonts are only one example.
Aspell supports Individual Word Lists.
And lastly, but not last, you have no idea how many support tickets, if any, that will cause.

Have a nice day,
M
Krastev
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Windows 7 & Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Testing Scrivener Beta for Windows

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devinganger
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Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:40 am Post

At least one of the examples you offer are features that are present in macOS in all programs that use the text system, not features that they deliberately built in to the program on one platform and not the others. L&L doesn't seem to be in the habit of deliberately introducing incompatibilities now that they're actively working to unify the versions as much as possible.

Likewise, the features that iOS doesn't support don't strip or alter data from the project.

Supporting custom wordlists in a roundtrip (so that a project goes from Windows to iOS or macOS and back) would require changing the project format, per my current understanding of how the project files are put together. KB would of course be the final arbiter there, but I am taking an educated guess based on 20+ years of being a professional in IT who has supported many programs at the desktop and datacenter. Which is why I am also taking an educated guess at the support load.

I understand why you want the feature. Hell, I want the feature. But that doesn't mean we'll get the feature if it makes life harder for L&L, and I am offering *my best guess* as to why the devs haven't already said, "Yeah, we'll make sure we add that to the list." For all I know they have it on a list of topics for internal discussion once Mac 3.1 is released, KB gets some time to work on Scapple, and Windows 3.0 gets finally released. Maybe at that point they'll talk about it and flesh out exactly what (if anything) would have to change, quantify the expected impact, and make a final decision. Or maybe it's already made and they're too busy to stop you and me having fun talking about it.
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BigT29
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Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:42 am Post

devinganger wrote:It's probably not that hard for them to automate -- but now that's a feature that Windows has that Mac and iOS *can't* have. What happens to the custom word list for those of us who sync projects between multiple platforms? That'll cause more support tickets than just not having the feature to begin with.


I don't see that as much of an argument.

- It might well be high-time windows users got something that wasn't just an lesser imitation of what MacOS users have. I mean if it becomes something that MacOs users start clamouring for then that would only give more justification and signal that maybe using the OS's built in spell checking may not be worth the limitations it places on the usability.

- As for what happens if procjects are synced well. I'd imagine nothing. Nothing other than having to deal with the custom wordlist not being the one you're looking for and then having to simply ignore the spellcheck errors or manually check the errors until you can get it back to a Windows desktop. Remember all that is being done is renaming and changing the file names. Program looks for file called wordlist.ini if I change wordlist.ini to wordlist.baskerville and wordlist.dune to wordlist.ini. well There's not really muchg difference from the program's perspective is it. You're not asking the program to read from a different file. its the same file in the end.

At worst you'll have to train the MAc/Ios devices custom wordlist, and best you can simply turn off the spellchecker and ignore it. That may seem a little callous but that's exactly what a lot of use have to do right now (well not me since I have my new trick).

When you're writing something along the lines of a Fantasy or Sci-Fi novel and you happen to work on multiple novels the current Spell checker is essentially useless. It might as well be turned off because you can't train i by adding custom words because then you have confusions where similar words appear between two different novels or stories.

Just a simple automation like what I fleshed out would at least give the WIndows users a little respite from having to do the spell-checking in another program.

As said. I've already got my work around and already. Just be nice if it was a feature and not a work around.

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Amcmo
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Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:58 am Post

- It might well be high-time windows users got something that wasn't just an lesser imitation of what MacOS users have. I mean if it becomes something that MacOs users start clamouring for then that would only give more justification and signal that maybe using the OS's built in spell checking may not be worth the limitations it places on the usability.


I don’t think high-time Windows users get is a good argument for a feature. The L&L guys are working hard to bring feature parity between the 2 platforms. I’m guessing Mac was always ahead in the past due to that being Keith’s platform of choice, and originally where the customers were perhaps.

Feature parity going forward is solid sense so there is seamless file transfer and no surprises with data.

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Marko Čibej
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Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:57 pm Post

BigT29 wrote: ...

Okay so I get that doing it for MAc is a no go (starting to see why they lost out so big ) but we're already 3/5th of the way to the feature.

Aby way i've already got my work around set up, it's just rather strange that something like this has to be a work around.

As is I just have multiple wordlist ini fils. The main one, and wordlist.<shortname of project>

The first item in every wordlist is the shorthand name for the project it belongs to. WHen I want to swap I just

  • change the current wordlist.ini to wordlst.<shortname> (peeking at the list to remind myself if necessary)
  • change the wordlist for the project i wish to work on to wordlist.ini.
  • Exit and restart Scrivener.

While i find it hard to believe the devs could find a way to automate those three steps, But then again, I can't see the source code so.

As is I'll see what I can do to whip up a handy applet to automate that, maybe throw in a user interface,


Wordlist.ini file contains a single key-value pair where the key is "personal" and the value is the list of words. Adding more pairs doesn't bother Scrivener, so it's quite possible to keep many lists in a single file and switch between them by renaming keys. Similar to BigT29's idea, writing a script that automates this is trivial but doing so safely is not. Scrivener appears to load word lists at start up. so you can use a separate wordlist in several simultaneously opened projects, just so long as you don't try to add a word to the list. I haven't tried what would happen then, but as a (former) developer I can imagine a few dozen possibilities, ranging from unpleasant to really bad.

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shaybella
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Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:18 am Post

I saw this as I was looking for some what to create auto-gen links for Characters, etc., and the back and forth I've seen makes me think there might be a way to kill two birds with one stone.

Meta-data tracking that is too specialized adds complexity while only helping a subset of users.

However, as we have a "templates" folder, I could imagine having an "in-line references" folder or something like that, with a toggle-able option to automatically create document links based on the document names in that folder. Then it wouldn't limit the usefulness to just characters / locations / items, as is the case with yWriter.

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54662&p=284650#p284650