DTP’s legacy downloads are here:
devontechnologies.com/download/legacy.html
Versions even older available – “only on request.”
Considering Scriv’s market of impecunious writers and students, Devon’s policy is worth some consideration for L&L.
Rgds - Jerome
Please explain how Scrivener’s legacy support is different?
Scrivener 2.8.1 will work with all versions of OS X back to 10.9.
Scrivener 2.5 will work from OS X 10.4 through 10.8.
Scrivener 1.54 will work from OS X 10.4 through 10.6.
Scrivener did not exist prior to OS X 10.4.
literatureandlatte.com/download_mac.php
Katherine
“If you are an existing customer…” (Scriv) vs
“legacy versions of our apps to use on older computers.” (Devon)
Pretty confident these Scriv legacy downloads will stay around after 3.0 to support steam-powered Mac users who experience a glitch. The concern for some users on this thread is that they won’t be available for license.
Rgds - Jerome
The license currently for sale on DevonThink’s site says that it supports OS X 10.9 or greater.
Have you personally tested that license with 1.x versions of DTP or can you point me to a page that confirms it will work?
I have nothing against DevonTechnologies. I use several of their products. But I’m not seeing any real difference between their legacy support and ours.
Katherine
L&L is not DEVONthink (although others in the thread previously have dealt nicely with that comparison).
L&L is selling licenses for Scriv2 and will until Scriv3 is released. All of those users are a potential point of support. Anyone who wants to buy a new Scrivener license once v3 is released will have to buy it for v3, but EVERYONE who has an existing v2 license still gets to use their license. They’re not blocking anyone from installing Scriv2 on a 32-bit legacy system provided they already have the license.
Why WOULD they want new users to buy a v2 license? That’s a separate code base. That’s a separate version of the program. Based on the archived interactions in the forum, that’s another X YEARS of people asking how to do “X” and getting told “you can’t do that in v2,” of finding themselves second-class citizens because the Scrivener world has moved on. They want to reduce that population as quickly as possible, not let it increase! (You brought up Linux and WINE – look at how many people STILL demand support on a version that was CLEARLY marked as unsupported, put out as one last bit of goodwill to the Linux community. Now multiply that.)
Nobody is saying you don’t have the right to keep your legacy installs. But that’s just it – they’re legacy. You have the right to not keep up with the latest and greatest for whatever reason you find compelling and nobody has the right to tell you differently (although we do the have the right to explain why we don’t agree with your reason). However, you don’t have the right to demand that L&L support your particular scenario, either, if they have run the numbers and decided that it doesn’t make financial sense to do so.
You and I have no clue of what the finances are to support Scrivener. (Well, I can make some semi-educated guesses, but that’s all they would be.) I can say from my own experience that supporting multiple, highly different versions of the same program is a lot of work, and the companies that willingly do that sort of thing USUALLY CHARGE EXTRA for support.
If this was a $1,000 program, or you paid $X a year for support, you might have a point. But US$45 one-time? Mate, that doesn’t give anyone the right to perpetual sales and support for 2.x – especially for people who choose to use a version that depends on an old, deliberately rotting OS platform.
A question, for clarification:
If L&L decide to continue to sell v2 licenses, can they do so without having to maintain some sort of support function for it? Doesn’t selling a product require that you also maintain some sort of support for it?
I would expect most future support questions regarding v2 to be answered “that has been solved in the new version 3”. Do you think a future new v2 buyer with at legacy system would accept such an answer?
Surprising to see negativity. Scrivener 3 sounds like it addresses the concerns I have with version 2 (style sheets!!), so I’m going to be an early adopter.
If I knew the moment L&L’s website would start taking payments for version 3, I’d set my alarm clock for any hour to get it on the instant of release (with style sheets!!!).
Hmmm… If I set an alarm for every hour I could get V3 as much as a half-day quicker. Twenty-three more wind-up Big Ben alarm clocks, that’s the answer.
Tick-tick-tick-tick…
Sound points. I find Scrivener 2 does a whole lot of stuff that no other software does, and does it well. My only problem is when users say things like “Oh, that’s a bug caused by Apple, which will be sorted out in Scrivener 3” or “Can’t wait until S3 is released!!” If my entire software life was based upon Scrivener, I’d upgrade to Sierra, but I NEED Dragon Dictate and can’t afford the newer version, and I use iTunes 10 a LOT. Admittedly I can use Photoshop CS6 and could probably upgrade to CC if I wanted to, but I can still use iPhoto and Elements 6, and don’t use Office anymore.
I also don’t agree with Keith that “users seem to like the annual release of Mac OS”. It’s one of the commonest complaints online among both users and experts. They DO seem to like the annual release of iPhones and iOS and I understand that. As for MacOS, now it’s moved exclusively to 64-bit (the original premise of Snow Leopard), all it needs is a touch interface which it could achieve via a Magic Trackpad, or the new supersize Macbook trackpad (… perhaps that’s what it has in mind … ?) and it would be pretty much perfect in terms of modern users interfacing with social media.
Microsoft brings many fewer upgrades to Windows (there was no Windows 9, so 10 is the 9th 
) while there have been 21 for Mac and High Sierra will be 22.
To be fair, you’d also need to count Service Packs and feature upgrades (like the Windows 10 Creator’s Update), which would bring it a lot closer to parity with MacOS.
I only buy software from companies that have a philosophy of “helping the user use the software,” not “helping the user work under the software.”
PCalc, HoudahSpot, and Scrivener are such products and I evangelize them all.
I’ve never felt L&L abandoned me. They’ve always stepped up.
I’m baffled, too, anyone would think otherwise.
Oh, and time marches on. You gotta go with the flow of software or use Word.
When you consider System 7.1, 7.5 and 7.6 were quite big upgrades, as were OS 8.1, 8.5 and 8.6, 9.1 and 9.2, and OS X 10.2.8, 10.10.3 and maybe one or two other “point” upgrades, that puts Mac still well ahead.
No. Windows 10, and OS 10, sounds like they are on parity. 
My apologies for provoking you. It was an assumption on my part that hardware was the reason for not upgrading past Mavericks. Which leads me to wonder what software is keeping you at Mac OS 10.9, and why they haven’t updated their software as well?
Ok, I’ve already listed these but I don’t mind doing it again:
the expense of upgrading Dragon Dictate 2.5 WiFi to version 3 or later which needs to run on 10.10 or later.
the current ability to run Snow Leopard Server in Parallels 10 - a later version of Parallels would be needed if I went beyond 10.9
the inability to run iTunes 10 beyond OS 10.9
I can still run Pages 4 and iPhoto in 10.9, though I believe there are ways to do so in the earlier iterations of 10.10, but no later.
That about covers it. Oh, and the fact that I’ve never owned an iOS device (though I intend to buy an iPad today). Oh, and also because Mavericks does pretty much everything I need, as a Mac user since 1994.
Excuse me but isn’t this discussion going in two different directions?
If you argue for 2, why not demand that L&L begin selling v1 licenses as well? The logic would be the same, right?
I haven’t argued for 2. That was someone else (unless you mean someone who cannot upgrade to Sierra and wants to buy Scrivener? Those would HAVE to be able to buy v2 and there’s no reason why they shouldn’t - it’s either that or no Scrivener at all, and L&L wouldn’t want that.).
You just argued for 2. It would be fun, but unrealistic.
I have a 2002 white iBook running Jaguar. It would be fun if I could upgrade all software on it to the latest possible (Tiger?) but unreasonable to expect all software companies to maintain back copies of all versions of all software.
Since we have no way to verify a user’s operating system, any proposal that involves selling new v2 licenses equates to option #2.
Katherine
I don’t know why you can’t sell a v2 license to someone who can’t use v3?
You’d do like many software companies do, and you’d have v3 as the main version for sale on your Home page. There it would outline the minimum requirements (hardware and software i.e. OS). In small print - as many companies do - you would refer users who don’t meet the minimum requirements to a ‘legacy version’ for which you would still charge of course. I’ve seen this so often, I don’t see why it should be an issue?
Users running Sierra or later wouldn’t even see or look for that small print and would purchase v3 as a matter of course. But obviously L&L would want to sell licenses to those who can’t use v3 - it makes no commercial sense not to, and involves very little effort.
Ah, but it’s not obvious, hence the whole conversation. L&L seems to not want to sell further v2 licenses once v3 is released, otherwise they would have planned to. And we are not privy to the financial reasons (and other reasons) why they have come to this decision.
And while you are correct that merely selling the license may involve “very little effort”, it is almost certain that supporting such users could be drastically more expensive.