The Legal Issues of Being Forced into using Dropbox

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especiale
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:29 pm Post

Oh my god! Anytime someone buys Scrivener is forced to use Finder (or whatever is in Windows)… No No No

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lunk
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:36 pm Post

Even worse, you are forced to buy a computer first! :shock:
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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kewms
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:42 pm Post

yosimiti wrote:2. You are forced, in a way, to have to use Dropbox when you download the app. There really aren't any other options. If you really want to get technical, when you buy Scrivener -- and it's a hefty bill for an app -- you should not be forced to use Dropbox or use any other software because that's not what you paid for. If that were the case, then the app should have been advertised this way. It's a Scrivener/Dropbox app, and not a Scrivener app ultimately. On top of that, you're essentially paying one company, to use the free services of another company. I think there's something fundamentally off with that arrangement.


This is untrue. You can use iOS Scrivener completely independently of the desktop versions. You can transfer data to iOS Scrivener via a direct connection using iTunes. Dropbox is the only *cloud* service that iOS Scrivener supports -- for technical reasons explained in detail elsewhere -- but it is absolutely not required to make full use of iOS Scrivener.

Moreover, the Dropbox limitation *has* been made clear in the pre-release discussions of iOS Scrivener, and in many different places on this site.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

Ji
JimRac
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:49 pm Post

lunk wrote:Your logic in this thread is similar to someone buying a car and then complaining about only being allowed to drive on roads. You should be allowed to drive where ever you want to go, and not only on roads built by someone else than the car company.


LOL! I was going to make a similar point and then realized I'd already wasted too much time on this. Thank you for making it for me.

At one point in my career I seriously considered the idea of transitioning to being an independent software developer. After reading through some of these IOS-related posts, I am so glad that I stayed in Corp IT. I do not have the patience and tact that KB has.
I’m just a customer.

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yosimiti
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:47 pm Post

Lunk --- I find the general tone of your posts quite unnecessary and personally directed. The demeaning tone you carry yourself with when writing to me via this forum, just makes you sound absurd -- something I am sure you are not. I'm actually in law school -- that alone doesn't make me any smarter than the average joe I should say (though it has helped get out a few tough spots in life) -- but I just would like to argue that my thoughts don't come from some repository of impulsiveness, that when not properly pandered to, continue to sublimate at the beck and call of whatever my whims may facilitate to at any given, particular moment. As for the car analogy, I thought it silly, and not at all parallel -- so much so that I'm just not going to respond to it, outside of the fact that I think the two situations are very much different. And as for my devoting my energies towards some form of writing of some kind in lieu of ranting my arse off here, yup, you're probably right. Unfortunately, the app that I would use to write my great piece of writing -- Scrivener for iOS -- has a major problem with it, hence my writing here.

The argument that I can use the app without using dropbox is, of course, obvious. Yup, via iTunes, etc, etc. But the holy grail of this app is its cloud capabilities. That's what drew me towards the app. Unfortunately, I've had a billion problems with dropbox (actually most of them have to deal with security issues)in the past, and in using Scrivener for iOS I found it felt like the app was more an advertisement for Dropbox, more than it was an advertisement for itself. I didn't purchase Scrivener to use dropbox; I purchased scrivener to use scrivener. I hope at some point that gets addressed in the next iteration of your app.

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lunk
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:01 pm Post

yosimiti wrote:Unfortunately, the app that I would use to write my great piece of writing -- Scrivener for iOS -- has a major problem with it, hence my writing here.

The argument that I can use the app without using dropbox is, of course, obvious. Yup, via iTunes, etc, etc. But the holy grail of this app is its cloud capabilities.
- - -
I didn't purchase Scrivener to use dropbox; I purchased scrivener to use scrivener.


Unless you have the desktop app as well, and want to use both, together, there is absolutely no reason what so ever to use Dropbox. You can use the iOS app on its own, which means everything is saved on your iDevice.

There is simply no logic in what you write, law school student or not.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

si
sidderke
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:13 pm Post

yosimiti wrote:2. You are forced, in a way, to have to use Dropbox when you download the app. There really aren't any other options. If you really want to get technical, when you buy Scrivener -- and it's a hefty bill for an app -- you should not be forced to use Dropbox or use any other software because that's not what you paid for. If that were the case, then the app should have been advertised this way. It's a Scrivener/Dropbox app, and not a Scrivener app ultimately. On top of that, you're essentially paying one company, to use the free services of another company. I think there's something fundamentally off with that arrangement


You're completely wrong. That IS what you paid for. Did they promise you anything else? You're acting like they said in their press releases they synced with everything, you bought it, you got cheated, and then you are saying: but that is what I paid for!

Schermafbeelding 2016-07-22 om 22.12.19.png
Schermafbeelding 2016-07-22 om 22.12.19.png (49.01 KiB) Viewed 1359 times


Look at my attachment. It's a screenshot from the iTunes Store, where you bought it. At the page WHERE you bought it.
And then I am not even talking about the multiple stuff L&L put out before, like on the forum, on the news letter, on the Facebook page, etc. ...
Sorry. You. Are. Wrong.
Saying you want other cloud services supported, is perfectly fine. Insinuating you are cheated, talking about legal issues and not having what you paid for etc, is just wrong. I'll quote you again to remind you, you said: "You shouldn't be forced, because that is not what you paid for."
Last edited by sidderke on Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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yosimiti
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:14 pm Post

Lunk -- If I didn't have any logic to what I wrote, why did you and do you continue to bother to respond? What's the point in arguing with someone if you fundamentally believe they don't know how to argue? That their thoughts don't matter, or that they derive from someone to whom you think possesses cognitive deficits of some degree or order? Oh right, your point was to insult, to demean, to ridicule the intelligence of someone, because outside of that reason, there really is no reason to continue arguing (or rather not arguing, but ridiculing), is there?

As for the actual argument, which I have already stressed before: I just want more options. Yeah, I know you could use the app and the desktop without ever touching dropbox. That isn't the argument. I want cloud capabilities beyond dropbox, because I don't like dropbox. And, as something to improve on in the next iteration, maybe that's something that can be done.

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yosimiti
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:29 pm Post

sidderke -- To some extent, you're correct. Feeling that you've been duped, is different from actually being duped. And the truth is, I wasn't, in the fine print. But man, this dropbox thing caught me off guard, and I just don't think people should have to feel that way.

There should be more options. Period. Do I feel that there's something fishy, legally? Heck yeah. Not in the law, but in the spirit of it.

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lunk
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:37 pm Post

Yosimiti - I wrote:

"There is simply no logic in what you write".

I did not insult or demean you as a person, only the logic in your post. If you already have Mac Scrivener, there was nothing to stop you from writing a masterpiece, long before the emergence of iOS Scrivener. And you already have a lot of options. There are several other writing softwares. Each one of them has its advantages and disadvantages. All you have to do is to pick the one which best suits your needs.

But you are right. I'll stop discussing with you, or answering your questions, because I don't think you really want any answers.
Good bye.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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JimRac
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:46 pm Post

yosimiti wrote:I want cloud capabilities beyond dropbox, because I don't like dropbox.

Well, that's it in a nut shell.

Don't hold your breath too long waiting for L&L to implement other cloud services.

"Currently, there are no plans to add support for syncing with other cloud solutions such as iCloud or OneDrive."

http://scrivener.tenderapp.com/help/kb/ ... solutions-
I’m just a customer.

ma
matsgz
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:47 pm Post

So, yosimiti, you are at law school. That might explain the only convincing point you've made so far:

yosimiti wrote:I realize there's likely nothing legally wrong with the choice Keith has made


Case closed.
Scribo ergo sum

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yosimiti
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:51 pm Post

Lunk -- Saying goodbye on a forum is a bit silly and juvenile dude, cause the next time you post, you kinda ...are ...just ...there. And what do you like not want me to respond to you? Cause I will if I find what your saying is off. I expect the same outta you.

Of course I can run off to other apps, but I don't want to. Why? Because scrivener despite its shortcomings rocks the house! I just think there should more cloud options. Do I think users are forced still? In a way (and not in all ways) they are. Do I think there's something fishy legally going on, sort of, but honestly it's more in spirit than in actuality.

Do I want solutions? Heck ya. Make a better app next time around. As a customer, I believe I have that right to make.
Last edited by yosimiti on Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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yosimiti
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:57 pm Post

matsgz-- If you ever said 'case closed' at the end of an argument in a courtroom, you'd likely get a good chuckle from the judge.

Luckily we're not in a courtroom, nor do we have to converse with clichéd, trite, reductive terminology.

I know there's nothing legally wrong -- it's the spirit of the legality that I'm centrally having issues with.

ma
matsgz
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:22 pm Post

Yosemite, so you have an issue with "the spirit of the legality" of there being a product in the market that doesn't meet your requirements. Interesting point.
Scribo ergo sum