EPUB 3 and EPUB 2

Do
Dorothea
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:37 pm
Platform: Windows

Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:59 am Post

Can we get EPUB 2 back, pretty please?

The tolino alliance doesn't accept EPUB 3 at all. And they don't plan to change that any time soon.

Draft2Digital accepted it with a nice compliment, but told me in the same instance, I'd be way ahead of time and I better upload EPUB 2, because some of their retailers don't handle EPUB 3 yet.

I tried to convert it to EPUB2 with Calibre, but that didn't work at all; that got me an mounain of validation errors. So how do I sell now ?

User avatar
dirkhaun
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:32 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Contact:

Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:21 am Post

Here's an earlier discussion with a workaround to get EPUB 2 support back: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54606

Do
Dorothea
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:37 pm
Platform: Windows

Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:22 pm Post

thank you.
I try that.

... and I don't think, we can get tolino,D2D and who else t oswitch to epub 3, iftheir reading devices don't support pub3

Do
Dorothea
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:37 pm
Platform: Windows

Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:40 am Post

dirkhaun wrote:Here's an earlier discussion with a workaround to get EPUB 2 support back: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54606


Did something work for you in this Beta?


I installed as instructed inKB's post.
but it didn'twork.
I got no epub2/epub3 mention, just anr "ebook" under my own formats. In the scrolldown to choose formats, there is still only "epub"
I compiled anyway, but that's still epub3,what I got..

User avatar
AmberV
Posts: 23699
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:30 am
Platform: Mac + Linux
Location: Ourense, Galiza
Contact:

Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:39 pm Post

The method you are referring to in the linked thread is for backwards compatibility, as this was changed after Scrivener 3 was released. We didn’t want people to load up their projects in the years to come, to compile a quick typo revision, only to find that all of their carefully designed settings were nuked and the book would have to be adapted to the ePub3 approach. Using this as a workaround to enable ePub2 is… well just that, not really the intended purpose.

So given that, it would have no sense at all for the developers to spend a month or two creating a whole different architecture for an obsolete format that wouldn’t even appear in the software by default, before it was even launched! You don’t generally program backwards compatibility stuff into betas.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

Do
Dorothea
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:37 pm
Platform: Windows

Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:27 am Post

AmberV wrote:
So given that, it would have no sense at all for the developers to spend a month or two creating a whole different architecture for an obsolete format that wouldn’t even appear in the software by default, before it was even launched! You don’t generally program backwards compatibility stuff into betas.


I see.
And I can understand ttat.
So, now why don't we have a way also in our new window version, given that we too have older books torevise and update? Some versions back we did have the choice between epub 2 and epub 3 - can't you just re-insert it? I have no clue about IT, though....

But more important Epub 2 isn't obsolete at all. As we said:
tolino doesn't accept it all.
Draft2Digital lets us upload epub 3, but states very clarly that they have anumber of retailrs they can't distribute it to.
My guess is that's a hardware issue and therefore won't go away anythime soon.

Certainly Scrivener 3 for windows will be released, before tolino and others are able towork with epub3.

So, now how do we get our ebooks to all retailers and libraries?

Tw
Twolane
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:39 pm
Platform: Windows

Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:23 am Post

how do we get our ebooks to all retailers and libraries?


I can't speak to all of the retailers and libraries you want to reach, so take what I do with a grain of salt.

I upload a properly formatted Word 10 .doc to Smashwords. They then do the formatting required to publish to all of their platforms on the Channel Manager. I won't list the conversions/formatting they do, but it's a lot. There are plenty of retailers you can select or not using the Channel Manager, also, once the product is verified and accepted.

Because Smashwords hits so many retailers, including Apple, I use my Smashwords .doc file as my master. The current date is part of the product file title if I have to do any editing for re-upload. It works for me for 60 titles or many more. I've stopped counting. I also do this full time, so for me it's a part of producing output for customers who want to read my product.

I use Word 10 to convert the .doc to a .docx for upload to Amazon. I allow Amazon do the conversions required for Amazon.

I upload a .docx file to Kobo. It then does the conversion required for its subscribers.

I use Calibre to convert the .docx to an .epub for Google Play.

Barnes&Noble is a primary vendor of my product, along with several others. I use the Smashwords Channel Manager to hit all of them.

Like I said, this is what works for me. I can't speak to your vendor requirements.

Note that I don't do print. I'm ebook only. If you do print, all of the above is not relevant.

Need I add that I use Scrivener for all of my writing? I think not, but hey, all donations gratefully accepted. I've been using the Win 3 Beta since v7 to produce product.

Oh, and one more thing. I export my Scrivener product as a text file, which I load into Word 10. I have Word's Styles function set up to produce a product that suits my formatting style. Of course, if you're using Scrivener's export function, your mileage may vary. I use the text formatting in Word as another way to edit the final product.

It all works for me.

Edited to add that this is probably more of a process post than a Bug Report, but I wanted to say, in a long-winded way, that there's more than one way/format/product output to hit all the retailers to sell product.

An
AndrewHarvey
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:14 am
Platform: Windows

Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:36 pm Post

Wearing my Hague Publisher hat let me just point out that Calibre states in their conversion instructions (https://manual.calibre-ebook.com/genera ... onvert.htm) that:

--epub-version
The version of the EPUB file to generate. EPUB 2 is the most widely compatible, only use EPUB 3 if you know you actually need it.


Forcing Scrivener users to use a format that is not accepted by all distributors doesn't make any sense. Particularly as epub3 offers absolutely no advantage to works of fiction.

However, as I will continue to use Jutoh to produce our eBooks, and as Jutoh can (probably) import epub3 formats I can withdraw from any further debate on the issue. Scriveners attitude is disappointing though.

PS - It would appear that TwoLanes is also as technologically literate as myself, unfortunately there are those of us who aren't and would be relying on Scrivener's compile function.
Writer and Publisher of SF & Fantasy
Platforms: Windows and Android
http://www.haguepublishing.com
http://www.andrewjharvey.com

An
AndrewHarvey
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:14 am
Platform: Windows

Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:59 pm Post

Dorethea, just had a thought. If you use Scrivener to compile the output to mobi format, you can then use Calibre to convert to either ePub 2 or 3 (that option is in the "Epub output tab" of the conversion menu).

Hope that helps.

Andrew
Writer and Publisher of SF & Fantasy
Platforms: Windows and Android
http://www.haguepublishing.com
http://www.andrewjharvey.com

TH
THuckabay
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:07 pm
Platform: Windows

Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:28 pm Post

I agree, we should have the option to choose between both ePub 2 and ePub 3. Too many people and too many current electronic publishing options will be hobbled without that.

User avatar
AmberV
Posts: 23699
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:30 am
Platform: Mac + Linux
Location: Ourense, Galiza
Contact:

Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:32 pm Post

As already noted, it would probably take a month or two of work to create an ePub 2 generator. That is a lot of work for something that would end up hidden in the interface. But I'm just repeating myself at this point.

There is no point in asking for this to be added, it will not be.

Please seek other alternatives for conversion if you require ePub2. There have been some good pointers and tips posted here for doing so.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

wo
wordjoy
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:26 am
Platform: Windows

Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:09 pm Post

AmberV wrote:As already noted, it would probably take a month or two of work to create an ePub 2 generator. That is a lot of work for something that would end up hidden in the interface. But I'm just repeating myself at this point.

There is no point in asking for this to be added, it will not be.

Please seek other alternatives for conversion if you require ePub2. There have been some good pointers and tips posted here for doing so.


I have seen this before. Developers sure that they have a handle on the industry and moving forward and the reality being different. Windows 8 Touch dominant Windows interface being the biggest example. The designers got ahead of the users by about half a decade.

It is very clear that EPUB2 has not been obsoleted by channels people need for their writing business.

It sounds like Scrivner if not able or willing to support this, should include SPECIFIC in manual references as to how to get there. Recommended tools? Partnership?

Part of the learning curve for Scrivner is the massive support for some very niche ways of managing documents.
Making sure that work can be compiled to a clearly still used format, seems less niche. I would note that the current version of Word still saves and opens in Word 97 format!

If the code "bridge "to Epub2 has been burned. Then maybe a forum area and an actual set of tested processes to get there from Scrivner would keep the general spirit in the app in supporting even niche writer needs.

User avatar
AmberV
Posts: 23699
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:30 am
Platform: Mac + Linux
Location: Ourense, Galiza
Contact:

Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:26 pm Post

Well to add another point of data to this, the Mac version hasn’t had a visible ePub2 generator for around a year now, and we get very little feedback for wanting one, despite it being practically an easter egg to find it. That thread that was linked to is about the extent of it, and you’ll see that template was downloaded around 100 times. That’s not a lot.

Any publishers requiring ePub2 over ePub3 will be a diminishing problem as time goes by.

If the code “bridge”to Epub2 has been burned. Then maybe a forum area and an actual set of tested processes to get there from Scrivner would keep the general spirit in the app in supporting even niche writer needs.


Sounds like a good idea to me. It’s not something I would have any personal experience with, but if someone has come up with some good ways to manage conversion, posting those results for others is something I’d be willing to pin.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

Do
Dormouse
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:01 am
Platform: Win + iOS

Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:03 pm Post

AmberV wrote:Well to add another point of data to this, the Mac version hasn’t had a visible ePub2 generator for around a year now, and we get very little feedback for wanting one,

Maybe the Mac users all use Vellum :wink:
It's not a problem for me. I don't compile in Scrivener, and have multiple ways of converting between formats. But I can understand the feelings of those for whom this was a fundamental part of their workflow.