[LH3201] Navigation in binder

ts
tswalker
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:06 pm
Platform: Linux

Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:00 pm Post

(Tried to post this earlier but something went wrong. Wormhole? Anyway, apologies for possible duplicate posts.)

Hi everyone!

I've been playing with the beta version. Really nice, guys.

Just a comment: One criticism of 1.9 was the interface looked dated. Maybe it's just me but I don't see much difference-- and that's a good thing. I was afraid you'd go with the cartoonish look of the current Windows OS. Thank you.

Question: In 1.9, I could use the up/down arrow keys to move all the way through the binder, scene by scene, through chapter "boundaries".

In the beta (.26), movement is limited by chapter. If going up, the highlight freezes at the last scene of the first chapter it enters. If going down, it freezes at the first scene of the first chapter it enters.

To "unfreeze" it, I have to change the focus by mouse click, or alt-tab into the editor and then back to the binder.

Is this by design, or is it something in my settings?
TSWalker

Ji
JimRac
Posts: 1232
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:06 pm
Platform: Win + iOS

Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:55 pm Post

I'm not seeing this behavior on beta 26, and didn't on any of the prior versions, that I recall.

Arrowing up or down through the binder keeps going through folder/document boundaries, same as 1.9.

As a point of reference, my current binder at most is 3 levels deep: Folder > Folder > Doc.

You may want to post a screenshot, showing where it gets 'stuck', so we can see exactly what your binder structure is. Also, what you have open in the editor (outliner, corkboard, etc) might make a difference.

Best,
Jim
I’m just a customer.

bi
biblioman
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 11:08 pm
Platform: Windows

Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:45 pm Post

Can confirm that when using arrows I am unable to move up or down more than a couple of steps in any direction without any obvious connection with the Binder Header's level. It looks like Scrivener hangs up after second or third arrow move. I prefer to move around Binder with mouse, that is probably why I have never experienced such a problem before.

To be precise, while the arrow keys seem to stop working, the app does not crash—mouse click works as expected.

rw
rwfranz
Posts: 767
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 9:41 pm
Platform: Windows

Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:11 pm Post

I notice this if the default for the chapter is Scrivenings, but not if it's Corkboard. I prefer Scrivenings as the default display mode for chapters; I don't use Corkboard once I've got things organized.

Ji
JimRac
Posts: 1232
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:06 pm
Platform: Win + iOS

Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:51 am Post

rwfranz wrote:I notice this if the default for the chapter is Scrivenings, but not if it's Corkboard. I prefer Scrivenings as the default display mode for chapters; I don't use Corkboard once I've got things organized.
Hmm.

The beta sometimes has challenges processing a folder that contains many documents.

I've noticed this problem with the Outliner--there's a long thread on it, where Scriv chokes in Outliner mode if there are many docs within one folder--but it's specifically not a problem with the corkboard.

Probably in Outliner mode Scrivener's trying to process all the docs in a way that it doesn't have to in Corkboard mode. I don't use Scrivenings mode at all, but it would make sense to me that it has the same challenge, where Scriv basically grinds to a halt while it's trying to stitch together all of those documents and display them.

I wonder if that is somehow related to the issue here, where as the arrow is moving within the binder, if it hits a folder that contains 'too many' documents, it *seems* as if the arrow key is stuck, because Scriv is busy processing the Outliner or Scrivenings docs.

That would also explain why I'm not seeing the issue. A few days ago, I restructured my binder structure due to the Outliner choking issue. I had 200+ docs in one folder and divided them up artificially across eight folders, which improved Outliner performance.

Any chance that's corresponds to what you folks are seeing?

Best,
Jim
I’m just a customer.

ts
tswalker
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:06 pm
Platform: Linux

Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:56 am Post

Thanks for the replies.

One of you mentioned scrivenings and gave me an idea. I went back and played around with both the 1.9 release and the current beta.

I can use up/down arrow keys and scroll through the whole manuscript in all three modes in both versions except for scrivenings in the beta. I suspect this might be a new change. Given Scrivener's difficulty dealing with very large bodies of text, it would make sense.

I haven't used Scrivener as extensively as some of you, and I didn't realize using corkboard or outliner view would give me exactly the behavior I wanted.

Always something new to learn in Scrivener.
TSWalker

ju
judithd
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:38 pm
Platform: Windows

Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:40 am Post

This bug is still in the beta.
I had same experience -- can use arrows to scroll in 1.9 but not in the beta *in text mode*.
It's fine in the beta as scrivenings,

rw
rwfranz
Posts: 767
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 9:41 pm
Platform: Windows

Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:50 am Post

JimRac wrote:Any chance that's corresponds to what you folks are seeing?


No. I'll explain better what I'm seeing.

If I've just used Scrivenings mode on the chapter folder, then as soon as I down arrow to the next document, REGARDLESS of how full that document is or ANY document is in the chapter, the arrow keys will not move the cursor down any further. To move further I have to use the mouse to click something. Further, I encountered another strangeness: A folder and a document on the same level, the document after the folder, at the end of the chapter. Arrow down to the document, the arrow won't move down any further. If I remove that folder, it will.

This will happen if all the folders and documents are completely empty. Just tested it. They're empty. Completely empty, in a test document.

It gets worse: If I hit the end of a chapter, it takes 3-4 down arrow keystrokes to move the cursor to the next chapter. That is odd behavior.

If I Alt-Tab away and then back to the project, the cursor will then move. If I click on the thing, the cursor will move. It's like the Binder loses focus after down-arrowing past a Scrivenings view (which the chapter is using).

Ji
JimRac
Posts: 1232
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:06 pm
Platform: Win + iOS

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:08 pm Post

@rwfranz - Yes, in Scrivenings mode, I'm seeing the same behavior as you.

To sum up for me: When arrowing through the binder -

In Corkboard - Scriv works fine.

In Outliner - Scriv works, but with potentially very long pauses over folders with many docs.

In Scrivenings - Scriv stops as you've described. Feels like a bug.

Best,
Jim
I’m just a customer.

th
thePhilosoraptor
Posts: 1188
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:28 am
Platform: Windows

Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:20 pm Post

We are aware of a bug wherein focus jumps from the binder to the editor if the editor is showing a Scrivenings session. This causes issues when using keys to navigate up and down the binder, as it will lose focus after two or three documents.

Please let us know if that is not what you are experiencing, as there may be another similar bug at play here.

Thanks.
Bryan Bender

rw
rwfranz
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Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 9:41 pm
Platform: Windows

Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:52 pm Post

thePhilosoraptor wrote:We are aware of a bug wherein focus jumps from the binder to the editor if the editor is showing a Scrivenings session. This causes issues when using keys to navigate up and down the binder, as it will lose focus after two or three documents.

Please let us know if that is not what you are experiencing, as there may be another similar bug at play here.


If by 2-3, you mean 1... it sounds like it. Exactly 1 document above or below the chapter or group of documents (it also happens when selecting a group of documents in the binder -- again, exactly 1 document up or down, Scrivener seems to freeze).

The other thing I reported may be related, or may be a separate bug:

At the last document in a folder/chapter, it takes 3 downarrow keystrokes to move to the folder below. Is this intended? Or is it a bug?

th
thePhilosoraptor
Posts: 1188
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:28 am
Platform: Windows

Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:14 pm Post

I'm seeing a total selection of 3 documents in the binder causing the binder to lose focus (selecting using shift and arrow key), and 1 single selection document either before or after the folder also causing lack of focus. Both are listed in the bug ticket. Sorry for being unclear in my earlier response.

As for your other issue of taking three keystrokes to move from the last document in a folder, I am not seeing this behaviour. Just to clarify, you click on the final document in a folder in the binder, then press the down arrow three times before the binder selection moves to the folder below it? It only takes one press for me, though there is a slight hesitation as it loads the Scrivenings session with the new folder.
Bryan Bender

rw
rwfranz
Posts: 767
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 9:41 pm
Platform: Windows

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:23 am Post

thePhilosoraptor wrote:As for your other issue of taking three keystrokes to move from the last document in a folder, I am not seeing this behaviour. Just to clarify, you click on the final document in a folder in the binder, then press the down arrow three times before the binder selection moves to the folder below it? It only takes one press for me, though there is a slight hesitation as it loads the Scrivenings session with the new folder.


Slight hesitation, in the case in question, is 2 or more seconds (lots of words in some chapters). I think this may account for it, as my fingers type farly fast (60+ wpm = 6+ keystrokes/second). If I *wait* through that pause, it's only 1 keystroke. If I don't wait, which I generally don't, then it's 3 keystrokes. Sometimes. sometimes those 3 downarrows end up selecting the document after the chapter; sometimes they select the chapter. I infer that some keystrokes are simply being dropped or ignored, or perhaps my keyboard isn't transmitting all keystrokes, though I haven't had much trouble with it.

Don't like waiting for Scrivener to catch up. Of course, this is only if Scrivenings is used as the mode for viewing chapters.