Scriv3 for Win - Yes another inquiry regarding release date.

User avatar
Xelmyrion
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:47 am
Platform: Mac

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:40 pm Post

When will Scriv3 for Windows be released?

I have read the forums and blog and there are numerous iterations of this question. There are also numerous responses that follow some variation on the same theme: Quit whining and app development is complex and it will not be released until its ready and (my personal fave) L&L has quite smartly not announced a specific date.

There is nothing smart about not announcing a date. No deadline looming large = no particular intensity necessary in the development. Why rush? There's no date pushing anyone. This is not a strategy for winning and keeping customers.

...and here's the reason why (at least one reason)...

Writing generates a ton of files, comprising not just story and character elements, but great many other things, as well. When I sit down to work on a piece of writing (and I don't think I'm unique) I launch a common set of tools to do the work. It doesn't necessarily matter whether one of them is Scrivener or not--the point here is the tools being selected and used.

After a surprisingly short period of time, I have invested enough time and effort in my work product and related artifacts that switching to a new tool to do the work is not a light switch transition process. Files are stored in a given format. The content of the files are formatted a certain way. The files are organized using some strategy and/or tool. And at some point, switching to a new tool just isn't worth it.

I've been hanging in there for about a year now, waiting for the release of Scriv 3 for Windows. I have historically been a Mac user and have enjoyed using the Scriv3 version for the Mac. In the last several months, though, my Mac has begun to show its age.

I'm facing a decision point.

I really don't want to spend the premium dollars necessary to buy a new Mac. In fact, I just simply cannot afford to do so. This means if (when) I upgrade my hardware, I'm faced with losing the ability to use Scrivener.

"Wait! Wait", you say. "You can export your files and...."

Yes, I know that. And I have no interest in converting all my projects to run in the current version of Scriv for Windows. The reason is that Scriv for Windows is feature poor and clumsy to use. Who would want to make that transition? Seriously.

If there's a transition to be made, it will be to reduce my dependence upon a company that cannot even accomplish the common courtesy of providing a firm release date for their product.

Release dates help customers make solid plans for their continued progress on their projects over time. And right now, it does not look like there is any clear idea of when Scriv3 version will be released (if ever). And while I wait, I continue to not be able to collaborate with my Windows-using writing partner and I continue to have no guidance from L&L on when I can expect them to release it.

SOooo...

As much as I love Scrivener 3 for Mac, I am continually being pressed to just dump it entirely, as I make my eventual hardware transition from a Mac machine to a Windows machine.

It's sad, really. But the choices are damned few: wait and hope for a Win release of Scriv3 or bite the proverbial bullet and just move on to using something else--even if that something else is a hodgepodge of other tools.

A hodgepodge that works is better than an elegant solution that doesn't.

------------
P.S. - The current version of Scriv for Win is not a hodgpodge. It's a less than half-baked product. Want proof? Look at Scriv3 for Mac. A hodgepodge in my use context is a collection of solidly built, easy to use, and elegant solutions within the scope of their product's intended use and purpose.

Tw
Twolane
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:39 pm
Platform: Windows

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:00 pm Post

So why not put another inquiry regarding release date in the appropriate thread? Ah, you're speshul. I get it.

If you are unhappy with your writing software, might I suggest any one of a number of writing programs.
There's even one available with a monthly subscription fee. I think it does something in the cloud, too, but I could be wrong about that. That one program, I'm certain, will be sure to solve all your writing problems. If it doesn't, try something else. There is a solution for you out there somewhere else.

Free. Paid. Monthly subscription. They're all available to solve your problems with Win Scrivener V1.

Or, to put it another way: A hodgepodge that works is better than an elegant solution that doesn't.

Oh, I almost forgot. When you find a mix of software that satisfies your every writing whim, please do let us know.

Bi
Binen
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:42 pm
Platform: Windows

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:15 pm Post

First a disclosure, Xelmyrion, is my writing partner. Next, for reasons not worth discussing here, I will NEVER own an apple device. That said…

I write my text in Word™ because “Literature and Latte” makers of Scrivener and “Nuance” makers of Dragon Naturally Speaking have never worked together. However, once the majority of text is created for a block, scene or chapter, I move it into Scrivener. Because to move text blocks and arrange the flow, nothing works better.

Here is the “monkey in the wrench,” unless I am doing a MAJOR rewrite or edit, I will use Scrivener to edit. And my friend, Xelmyrion, in the past could look at my writing and edit or offer suggestions. Just as I could do with his writing. But Windows and Mac files are no longer compatible.

So if I want him to read something, or if he wants me to read something, we have to copy it out of Scrivener, make a Word file, and save it on our cloud. Not exactly conducive to good flow, productivity, or collaboration.

Now about 18 months ago when this began, we did do that. Because at the time it appeared that the Windows version would be out in a few months. After about six months it just turned into too much of a hassle. We still help each other but it has really stopped our production as a team. For now we are still waiting. But we also are looking for a reasonable replacement and just dump Scrivener.

User avatar
Sparrowhawk
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:49 pm
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:36 pm Post

Binen wrote:But Windows and Mac files are no longer compatible.


As far as that problem goes, you could use the Scriv 3 beta - I have been for months and there is loss of data between the two versions or iOS even, as I own all 3 versions of Scrivener.

If you need to dump Scrivener because it is holding y ou back, you need to dump Scrivener, but getting angry won't help.

They used to have release dates, or at least target months, but they stopped doing that after always missing them. They do have internal deadlines they share only with their team, but they do not publically share those so as to not destroy their credibility.

As far as "not being motivated" - I seriously have trouble believing that. Scrivener doesn't use a subscription model, so no new product = no new revenue. This is their job, this is how they make money. But they are a tiny, TINY company. They don't have multiple teams developing, they have a single team (2 developers for Win if I remember correctly, but I may be off). That means if something goes wrong, or a problem is proving to be a more difficult nut to crack than originally thought, there is no other team to jump in and help get them back on schedule. A delay with as tiny of a company as L&L is a just that - a delay. There is no moving around of resources to compensate.

L&L is quite aware of the frustration many of its users have at how long it is taking to release the commercial-ready version of Win 3, and they are already quite aware that the longer it takes, the more Windows users will go find something else to meet their needs. But they do not begrudge you doing that - you need to do what you need to do. But attacking their work ethic is petty and will prove pointless.

If they release it too soon and it causes problems and people demand a refund, it will cause a much bigger problem than losing those who cannot afford to wait. But if you can't afford to wait and have found a viable alternative, nobody will blame you for going to it, Otherwise, just wait - all of us are quite eager for it. Though I own Scrivener on all 3 platforms, I like you refuse to buy a Mac again (at least until they give me back the ability to upgrade my laptop myself after I purchase it) and am very much in need of the Windows release.
Last edited by Sparrowhawk on Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You will find more evidence of the ridiculousness of humanity in the bathroom mirror than any other place in the world.

User avatar
xiamenese
Posts: 4695
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:32 am
Platform: Mac
Location: London or Exeter, UK.

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:38 pm Post

I have been collaborating with a Windows-using colleague for years. Until I felt the Windows 3 beta was stable enough for her to work with it, somewhere before beta 10, I used Mac version 2 for our joint projects. Since then she has been using the beta 3 and I use Mac 3. We have had no problems. If we need to compile anything I tend to do that, but that is the only difference,

So lack of compatibility doesn't exist for us.

Mark
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
M1 MacBook Air (2021), 11.2.1, 16GB RAM, !TB SSID
iMac 27" (late 2015) 10.15.7, 24GB RAM, 512GB SSID
2017 iPad, iPadOS 14.3, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

User avatar
Xelmyrion
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:47 am
Platform: Mac

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:33 pm Post

You have to admit, no word out of L&L since December 2018 on status of release date is kinda lame. I see increasing beta versions, so I think they're making progress, but I have no sense of whether they are making the kind of progress that will lead to a release in Q2 2019 or the kind of progress that leads to a release in Q2 2020.

Hey L&L, how goes the progress?

*crickets*

I have a hodgepodge already, by the way. The point of my post (aside from some simple venting of frustration) is the lack of communication means they are, in effect, driving customers away.

"How so?" you ask.

As I said in my post above, I don't have any guidance from them on when it will be released. I love Scrivener so much for working on my writing projects that I want to know, as I am about to make my next hardware purchase, if the Windows version is coming anytime soon. If so, then my decision becomes much simpler. If not, then I have to decide if I'm willing to commit to walking away from Scrivener and make the transition to my hodgepodge.

It's frustrating when the company of your favorite tool is silent on release status.

User avatar
lunk
Posts: 4391
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:24 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Sweden 64° N

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:44 pm Post

I think the usual answer from L&L is something along the lines of "make your choice based on what exists, not on what you hope will happen in the future"
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

User avatar
AmberV
Posts: 24641
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:30 am
Platform: Mac + Linux
Location: Ourense, Galiza
Contact:

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:53 pm Post

It’s frustrating when the company of your favorite tool is silent on release status.


Perhaps what you mean by this comment is that you do not like the answer we give?

We’ve been giving that answer for many years now. As I say there in that post, some don’t like it, but “crickets”? :mrgreen:
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

EM
EMPisek
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:05 pm
Platform: Windows

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm Post

AmberV wrote:
It’s frustrating when the company of your favorite tool is silent on release status.


Perhaps what you mean by this comment is that you do not like the answer we give?

We’ve been giving that answer for many years now. As I say there in that post, some don’t like it, but “crickets”? :mrgreen:


You can please some of the people some of the time while others don't give a fart on the answer if it doesn't mesh with what they want to hear. :P :roll:
:arrow: I'm not just a tester,.. I'm a user :!:

User avatar
kewms
Posts: 7151
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:22 pm
Platform: Mac

Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:00 pm Post

Every minute spent explaining (again) that we don't publish release dates is a minute not spent answering support queries or writing and debugging code.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

Do
Dormouse
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:01 am
Platform: Win + iOS

Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:44 pm Post

I had a look last year, and it was obvious that it was a very long way from release ready. iirc I thought probably Q3 this year.

Now I think it is working well enough for me to use, but still has features to add. I'd usually expect to see those features in a beta before release. I'm happy enough with my original guess, and would be very pleased if it were out this quarter.

But I would emphasise that I know nothing about it at all. Just an entirely uninformed guess as a software user.

FWIW I'd like the option to buy it now. Expiry is a very minor inconvenience, but I'd still prefer it not to be there.

At the end of the day, you can either have a fixed date, and uncertain quality level or a fixed quality level and an uncertain date. I'm with the L&L policy on which is the best way to do things.

EM
EMPisek
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:05 pm
Platform: Windows

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:00 pm Post

Dormouse wrote:I had a look last year, and it was obvious that it was a very long way from release ready. iirc I thought probably Q3 this year.

Now I think it is working well enough for me to use, but still has features to add. I'd usually expect to see those features in a beta before release. I'm happy enough with my original guess, and would be very pleased if it were out this quarter.

But I would emphasise that I know nothing about it at all. Just an entirely uninformed guess as a software user.

FWIW I'd like the option to buy it now. Expiry is a very minor inconvenience, but I'd still prefer it not to be there.

At the end of the day, you can either have a fixed date, and uncertain quality level or a fixed quality level and an uncertain date. I'm with the L&L policy on which is the best way to do things.


If you buy the Win version now you are automatically guaranteed the Beta version once completed. It even states --If you buy Scrivener 1 for Windows now, you’ll get a free update to version 3 when it’s available.

Existing users of Scrivener 1 will be able to purchase Scrivener 3 for the discounted price of $25 when the time comes.

We don’t have a specific release date yet, other than stating Scrivener 3 for Windows will be available during Q2 in 2019.

Note: This page was updated on 10th December 2018 with a revised estimated release date. .
:arrow: I'm not just a tester,.. I'm a user :!:

Tw
Twolane
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:39 pm
Platform: Windows

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:26 pm Post

It's a 45$ software program, for god's sake, and some of you are incensed that a final release date hasn't been announced. In this day and age, 45 bucks is nothing. Go find something useful to write and let the company do its work.

I have a thought. Vellum has never been released for the Windows operating system. Why don't you all go over to their platform and whine and snivel there while lobbying for a Windows release.

User avatar
devinganger
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:55 pm
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: Monroe, WA 98272
Contact:

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:33 pm Post

Dormouse wrote:FWIW I'd like the option to buy it now. Expiry is a very minor inconvenience, but I'd still prefer it not to be there.


You can buy the Windows 1.9 license now, which will let you upgrade to 3 when it is finally released.

They don't tend to put license code in the betas, using instead the expiration date mechanism. This ensures two benefits specific to testing:

1) Users are forced to move to newer versions of code, so they're not reporting bugs in older versions. (They're also given the opportunity to see that their particular bug was actually fixed when the devs think it was.)
2) Support time doesn't have to be wasted on licensed/unlicensed issues.
--
Devin L. Ganger
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes -- Kevin Flynn

Do
Dormouse
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:01 am
Platform: Win + iOS

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:09 pm Post

devinganger wrote:You can buy the Windows 1.9 license now, which will let you upgrade to 3 when it is finally released.

But there'd be no point because it wouldn't improve the convenience.

devinganger wrote:They don't tend to put license code in the betas, using instead the expiration date mechanism. This ensures two benefits specific to testing:

1) Users are forced to move to newer versions of code, so they're not reporting bugs in older versions. (They're also given the opportunity to see that their particular bug was actually fixed when the devs think it was.)
2) Support time doesn't have to be wasted on licensed/unlicensed issues.

I appreciate that is is what they do. iirc it's the way they have always done it.
But other developers manage just fine, and so do L&L post release.

I've always seen the advantage as allowing those without a licence to act as beta testers.