Literature and Latte

devinganger wrote:Then stop asking people to stop repeating things that L&L has said.

I really don't need advice from you on how to respond to posts. For technical questions I will contact support in the future and ignore these discussions here.

Wow. Congratulation you two, you managed to bring enough ill will to the table to push out the only user who had made the significant efforts of :
- gathering consistent statistical data about the issue, on a larger number of users than what we have had on this topic,
- going through a full factory reset and testing of a device L&L has been reluctantly asking for,
- remaining respectful of everyone here despite some clear misconducts.
You should be ashamed.

Also, as for this whole "holier than thou" battle you have going on here over numbers (seriously, how petty is that?), I'd like to put out there that, on a commercial scale (L&L being a company selling a product), 25% and counting stops being a minority and starts being a significant market share.
I say "and counting" because as you read through the 28 pages of this topic, you see every now and then people arriving, saying "I have bought the latest devices/upgraded to the latest iOS version and now I have this issue", meaning that as more and more people transition to lastest devices/iOS versions, it will keep happening. If this doesn't get fixed soon, a year from now, we'll be talking 75% instead of 25, so continuing to argue like kids over what counts as minority or majority is clearly pointless. If it was 5 or 10%, I'd let it pass. But more than 20% a few months in is beyond the line.

Also, @lunk ; I thought I had been clear the first time. You have made the effort to be positive and productive on this topic for a while after that but now it has worn off. If you do not have anything to say that would help the situation, you have nothing to do on this topic. I work as tech support on other forums and communities and believe me, in most places, you would have been locked out of the conversation by now. As Thomas Rabenstein said : don't play down the bug here all the time. Thank you for your comprehension.

Wow. Congratulation you two, you managed to bring enough ill will to the table to push out the only user who had made the significant efforts of

Yes, both Lunk and Devinganger can labour the point and be a bit ‘dog at a bone’ and I’ve been on the receiving end of the latter’s ...., the user who had the dummy spit and left contributed equally to the spat by endlessly harping on despite reasonable responses from the L&L team and other users.

A reminder, as L&L have pointed out, it IS NOT a Scrivener issue, but one somewhere between Dropbox and Apple. Other apps including Ulysses have been impacted. L&L have been unable to replicate. I have a latest iPad Pro 12.9 that had an issue that was resolved by removing one file after the 13 upgrade. My new 11 Pro worked fine first up.

HathWrites wrote:25% and counting stops being a minority and starts being a significant market share.
I say "and counting" because as you read through the 28 pages of this topic, you see every now and then people arriving, saying "I have bought the latest devices/upgraded to the latest iOS version and now I have this issue", meaning that as more and more people transition to lastest devices/iOS versions

Any share is a significant market share; Literature & Latte DOES care about the users ...

But it's a small minority.

a) Polls always count a self-selected sample. Folks who DON'T have a problem are far less likely to answer. People with a DIFFERENT sync problem will answer as if they're affected by this one. Et cetera.

b) If no one in Cornwall or the Windows team in Australia saw an example in 5 months, the % affected must be small. Is it 5%, 1%, or 0.1%? No idea. But it's not 25%.

c) Newer devices are not the only ones affected, so adding more new devices won't necessarily up the percentage affected. The only clear pattern is the presence of iOS13 or iPadOS. A few users are still on 12, and going to 13 could add more problem devices ... but maybe they don't have to go to 13.

d) In 408 posts in this thread, the number of unique users is (guessing) 50 or less. The rest are duplicate posts by the same user, Literature & Latte responses, and posts like mine, trying to counsel calm.

and

e) There's a perfectly viable sync process through iCloud Drive and the iOS Files app. It takes a little more effort, but you CAN get your work done. Who knows, it may even be safer than automatic Dropbox syncs.

Thomas Rabenstein wrote:

devinganger wrote:Then stop asking people to stop repeating things that L&L has said.

I really don't need advice from you on how to respond to posts. For technical questions I will contact support in the future and ignore these discussions here.

Hello Thomas.

Just to let you know that your patience and effort are very much appreciated.

I would ask you to stay on the thread, because I'm sure the work you've done has helped a great many people.

Seconded, as a person considering an iPad to make greater use of iOS Scriv. And I'll add an appeal to the usual suspects to stop trolling this thread.

So as it seems my 'question' ignited the blue touch paper.... (at least in this round!)

I'm a LONG (VERY!) time scrivener user, and I've had bugs with dropbox and syncing and things over the years, and L&L have ALWAYS managed to fix issues I've had and I rate their support, development and communications second to none..

I hate to see all this bitching and arguing and quite frankly fairly nasty behaviour here... this is NOT helpful to fixing issues, which (having read the 27+ pages) looks like a complex bug between Apple and Dropbox, which Scrivener caught in the middle.

I have a neurological condition, so having Scrivener on my iPhone where I can quickly write things that drop into my head before i forget them, and then sync is, pretty vital to me...

Will I struggle if I can't sync..? Yes... Will I dump Scrivener? No! Will I ask simple questions here if the result is whats happened above? GOD NO!!!!

naquada wrote:I have a neurological condition, so having Scrivener on my iPhone where I can quickly write things that drop into my head before i forget them, and then sync is, pretty vital to me...

I use the Drafts app on my iPhone for those quick ideas. I open it, jot down the idea, and when done I send it to Scriveners Scratchpad with two taps. Next time I sit at my Mac, I simply open the Scratchpad from within Scrivener and put the text where it should be in the relevant project. For me, that’s a much faster way of doing it, before I forget it because I am distracted by something else.
Drafts even has an Apple Watch app, so I don’t even have to open the phone if my hands are busy with something. I tap on the phone app, speak the idea and save it, and next time I open my phone I send it to the Scratchpad

lunk wrote:

naquada wrote:I have a neurological condition, so having Scrivener on my iPhone where I can quickly write things that drop into my head before i forget them, and then sync is, pretty vital to me...

I use the Drafts app on my iPhone for those quick ideas. I open it, jot down the idea, and when done I send it to Scriveners Scratchpad with two taps. Next time I sit at my Mac, I simply open the Scratchpad from within Scrivener and put the text where it should be in the relevant project. For me, that’s a much faster way of doing it, before I forget it because I am distracted by something else.
Drafts even has an Apple Watch app, so I don’t even have to open the phone if my hands are busy with something. I tap on the phone app, speak the idea and save it, and next time I open my phone I send it to the Scratchpad

Well, wonderful for you.
Maybe other people don't want a ton of other apps to go through when they had one app they BOUGHT working perfectly fine for so long. It sounds to me like going to dump in your garden because your toilets are clogged. Maybe it helps for some time but, it has to be dealt with at some point! It can't go on, you know?
It's exactly the same for dubious workarounds and asking people to change their well-rounded work habits.

Now, I have that sync problem too. I've been reading silently and expectantly so far but as it seems that people need to put names and numbers on lists to be taken seriously and evaluate the reality of the problem, here I am. It's just one person to add, not a big % or anything and yet, I have that problem too. And, quite frankly, I want it resolved. And reading people fighting, giving unrequited workarounds, and shushing the frustration of MANY users is utterly unsettling. And upsetting.
Nobody, for all I recall reading here, has accused L&L to have caused the issue or anything. Of course! It's obviously not their fault !!! So, why defending them aimlessly when users come here to add their name to the all powerful "stats"?!
People come here because it's pointless to go complain to Apple, or Dropbox!! Their spokespersons will redirect them here, of course!! Because, it's this app that has a problem with Apple or Dropbox, not the other way around! Not the way they see it. And it's clearly not our place, users, to try to contact them to resolve that something, somewhere, that is crumbling everything down between iOS13 and Dropbox. It's something that must happen between corporates, not us, users.
So, yes, we will continue to come "complain" to L&L that WE have a problem with their app, because it's what these forum threads are made for. Even if some "blessed" individuals dodged the bullet while upgrading (either hardware or software) and everything still works perfectly fine for them.

Please stop shushing or selling snake-oil-workarounds to the people coming here to report the issue with their specifics to try to get it resolved. You're not helping anyone or anything. It's hard enough already to have to work with a currently-unstable app and not having much more of an explanation as it is.
So, spare us the bull****, maybe?
Thank you for your attention.

ValkAngie wrote:Please stop shushing or selling snake-oil-workarounds to the people coming here to report the issue with their specifics to try to get it resolved.

a) The snake-oil-workaround with iCloud Drive and the iOS Files app WORKS and isn't all that difficult. Why wouldn't you want to know about it?

b) The issue was reported long ago and many times. Reporting it again does nothing to help anyone. Few of these posts give useful specifics, so there's that, too.

c) Sending your failing device to Literature & Latte would help, but you'd have to talk to them (through a support ticket) about where you'd send it and how. If they're not willing to accept your device, I think you'd have a valid complaint.

Let us know if you try that and it fails.

In the "Scrivener users" Facebook group
... with 12,173 users
... 10 hours after posting the poll

I have TWO users reporting the crash.

I'll post the poll again in a couple of days.

drmajorbob wrote:In the "Scrivener users" Facebook group
... with 12,173 users
... 10 hours after posting the poll

I have TWO users reporting the crash.

I'll post the poll again in a couple of days.

Dropbox crash poll.png

Oops ... that's FIVE reports, not two.

For those who answer, it's 20% so far ... but again, those with problems are more likely to report.

I’ve been considering adding Scrivener to my iPad. I use it on a Windows PC and figured why not the iPad, too. Reviews on the App Store are not too positive so I googled for iPad user reviews and ended up here.
And, wow! what an eye opener it’s been reading through all this. I’m not a regular here, so I’m not going to wade in to the debate, and I don’t have the iPad app so any input from me would be ignorant, but the upshot as I see it is (regardless of whether it’s L&L, Apple, or Dropbox at the epicentre of this issue), there is an issue. I really like Scrivener on my PC. I think I’ll hold off adding it to the iPad.

How old is your iPad? Mine is from 2017 and syncs fine with iOS 13. My iPhone is a current model and doesn’t sync one project. If you’re not using a brand new device with OS 13 you should be fine.

Thanks Derick. My iPad is about 6 years old, an iPad2 with software 12.4. Maybe I’ll go ahead and instal Scrivener. It’s not so much the cost that concerns me as a synch going haywire and losing my project (I read of someone losing a project in a botched synch and then somehow it backed up and he (reckons) he lost 4 years work. It’d ruin your day, wouldn’t it? (I’ll save my project somewhere safe first).