Will iOS Scriv Work in iPad OS?

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devinganger
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Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:09 am Post

popcornflix wrote:
KB wrote:There has been an argument that using Apple’s text system is a problem and that pro apps should build their own text system from scratch. My point was only that this is wrong.


I think you have misunderstood my argument.

...

So I agree with you -- Apple's text system is not the problem.


I think you have misunderstood KB's argument. I believe he is saying your conclusion "build a custom text system" is wrong.
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popcornflix
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Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:47 am Post

lunk wrote:Promise??
Maybe it’s a language thing but to me


Yeah, I think it's a language thing. I was using "promise" meaning "the quality of potential excellence." Like a "promising student."

So you could reparse that sentence as:

I want Scrivener to fulfill its potential excellence
.:popcornFlix:.

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lunk
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Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:03 am Post

popcornflix wrote:So you could reparse that sentence as:

I want Scrivener to fulfill its potential excellence

Okay, my mistake, and a sincere apology for the harsh words.

A question: are you above referring to Scrivener in general or only the iOS version? (asking because this thread started with a question about iPadOS and Scrivener, not Mac Scrivener)
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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popcornflix
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Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:52 pm Post

Apology accepted.

I was referring to both versions of Scrivener. I recognize that I am one of the culprits in derailing this thread. The conversation about our shared frustration with lack of parity in iOS spilled over to my frustration with OSX version's screenplay formatting issues.
.:popcornFlix:.

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lunk
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Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:10 pm Post

popcornflix wrote:I recognize that I am one of the culprits in derailing this thread. The conversation about our shared frustration with lack of parity in iOS
"Our" shared frustration?

But even that part was a derailing as the initial question was "Will iOS Scriv Work in iPad OS?", not "Will iOS Scriv reach feature parity with Mac OS Scriv?". And by the way, that second question has been answered by KB with "No", and he has also given his reasons. So that subject can be closed, right? Pursuing it would be a bit childish, don’t you think?

popcornflix wrote:...spilled over to my frustration with OSX version's screenplay formatting issues.
Ah, but you have received an answer from KB for this part as well, haven’t you? So why do you continue on this subject?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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pigfender
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Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:52 pm Post

There comes a time when the passionate pursuit of feature tweaks drifts from desire to procrastination and then from procrastination to a favourite excuse.

Every now again I like to remind myself that:
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popcornflix
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:08 am Post

lunk wrote:So why do you continue on this subject?


If you have issues with me, I suggest you send me a private message and spare the rest of the forum participants.
.:popcornFlix:.

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Sparrowhawk
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:34 am Post

popcornflix wrote:
lunk wrote:Promise??
Maybe it’s a language thing but to me


Yeah, I think it's a language thing. I was using "promise" meaning "the quality of potential excellence." Like a "promising student."

So you could reparse that sentence as:

I want Scrivener to fulfill its potential excellence


Let's calm down everyone. KB will do what he will do, we can ask what we want, but at the end of the day, it is his product.

Pop, you seem to be a passionate screenwriter. While Scrivener does have some screenwriting features, it was always conceived a novel writing software, mainly because there was nothing like it on the market to help novelist. Not only was this where Keith's "passion" was - it was where a hole in the market was, but from a business standpoint, you are far more likely to succeed by filling a void than by trying to compete with someone who has a massive and happy customer base. Forgetting questioning Keith's passion, which is a little presumptuous (correct or not), Scrivener from a business standpoint will always cater first to novelists because that is its primary niche from a business perspective (as evidneced by the professional testimonials), not just KB's storytelling choice. Trying to be everything to everybody is how we got Microsoft Word - certainly an amazing piece of software, but a jack of all trades and master of none.

There has, however, been a very powerful screenwriting tool long before Scrivener ever existed: Final Draft - available for Mac, PC, and iOS. Based on your comments here and even your profile name, screenwriting seems to be your primary story medium. Even if you also write novels or other story forms in Scrivener, if your main passion is screenwriting, why do you not use the industry standard for it? What does Scrivener do better for screenwriters than Final Draft? It seems like you are trying to use a screwdriver like a hammer even though there is a hammer at hand. Sure, you CAN hit a nail with a screwdriver - especially the butt of it - but it's not the screwdriver's fault that it punches nails through wood worse than a hammer. In a pinch, maybe it makes sense short term if you don't have a hammer with you, but if spend most of your day hammering at nails, it might be best to buy a hammer and save your screwdriver for its intended use instead of asking the manufacture to add a hammerhead to the screwdriver - which could definitely be done, but would make the screwdriver heavier and make the user tired more quickly when used for what it was originally designed for.

One of the best things about Scrivener is its cost. It is something that you can add to your toolbelt fairly cheaply for when the situation calls for it, even if the bulk of your resources go to securing the best tool for your main project.
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lunk
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:36 am Post

popcornflix wrote:If you have issues with me, I suggest you send me a private message and spare the rest of the forum participants.

I don’t. It was a question, out of curiosity. :)
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:02 am Post

Sparrowhawk wrote:There has, however, been a very powerful screenwriting tool long before Scrivener ever existed: Final Draft - available for Mac, PC, and iOS. Based on your comments here and even your profile name, screenwriting seems to be your primary story medium. Even if you also write novels or other story forms in Scrivener, if your main passion is screenwriting, why do you not use the industry standard for it? What does Scrivener do better for screenwriters than Final Draft?


I'm going to answer for Pop's place: Final Draft is really not that good of a piece of software. Agreed, I was on version 9 when I was working with it, but it's Index Card feature was unstable and not as featured as the one of Scrivener. It really was a mess, and it had weird limitations. Scrivener has all the other features that some screenwriters love but Final Draft doesn't have: the ability to open research, work with multiple windows, have notes, link to documents, work with keywords, ... Final Draft is much more limited, the features were well less thought out and stable, all at 5 times the price of Scrivener.
When I had Final Draft and used it, it did the basics well but I was shocked at how badly some features, like the Index Cards, were implemented. Maybe this changed (they are now at version 11) but Scrivener at the time already did it *much* better.

Lately, I personally have been using a combination of Scrivener to do all of my groundwork (putting the story together) and Highland 2, a fountain based app made by screenwriter John August, to write the final thing. I do copy back to Scrivener, because I want my projects 'complete' in Scrivener. And because I'm an aspiring filmmaker, Scrivener also allows me to have folders with pictures for locations, link to video pieces, etc etc etc.

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popcornflix
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:46 am Post

Sparrowhawk wrote:What does Scrivener do better for screenwriters than Final Draft?


Plenty.

Screenplay apps like Final Draft, MMScreenwriter, Fade In and WriterDuet are mostly for typing pages. The fanciest extra features are for managing colored-page rewrites in production, and collaborating online.

The organizational tools are pretty weak. Most of them have a simple index card system where each card is linked to a scene. So mostly these apps allow you to move your scenes around by using the index cards.

Scrivener is at a whole different level. The core concept of Scrivener is that your documents/index cards can contain anything from 1 to 10,000 words. Plus, you can split and merge them at will. This is incredibly powerful for screenwriting.

Here are two applications I use for screenwriting:

I often will sit down and write a huge brain-dump of a prose document, expressing every idea I have about the script. Free-associating, paying no attention to rhyme or reason. When I run out of gas, I go through the document and split it into separate ideas, and file them into folders. Before you know it, I have a gold mine of related ideas and the story is starting to take shape. There's no other software I know if that can do that.

Scene writing can be difficult, especially under a deadline. I use cards in Scrivener to outline the beats of a scene. Each event in the scene gets a card. At the start, I write in terse prose just to rough out the scene. Then each card gets fleshed out and rewritten. I can rearrange them, add cards, split cards -- whatever the scene needs. I can see it all in Scrivenings, or focus in on one or two beats.

When it starts to fall into shape, I merge all the documents into one scene, and write the screenplay pages. It's amazing how much faster you can break a difficult scene with Scrivener.

Another essential tool for Screenwriting is Collections. There's a craft process in screenwriting called "voicing." You go through the script and check every line a character says and make sure it all sounds true to that character.

Using Scrivener, I can search for the character's lines, make a collection, and then revise the lines using Scrivenings. Fast and easy. Even better, Scrivener has powerful search variables so I can investigate all kinds of things in the script. It is a profoundly powerful tool for revising your script, and no other app has anything like it.

Now you know why I want Scrivenings and Collections in iOS so much.

I currently use Scrivener and Final Draft together, because Scrivener's Screenplay processing isn't up to professional standards. One of the features that Keith generously added at my request was pasting from Final Draft's clipboard into a Screenplay document in Scrivener and retaining the format. This allows me to plan everything in Scrivener, type a scene in Final Draft, and then copy/paste the pages into Scrivener to build the screenplay.

IMHO, Scrivener is worth the inconvenience. It's a secret weapon for writing better screenplays.

I just wish the typing and editing of screenplay pages was as excellent as the rest of the app.
Last edited by popcornflix on Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
.:popcornFlix:.

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popcornflix
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:50 am Post

sidderke wrote:I personally have been using a combination of Scrivener ...and Highland 2...to write the final thing. I do copy back to Scrivener, because I want my projects 'complete' in Scrivener.


I agree with most of what you wrote. It's telling that writing script pages outside of Scrivener is a thing.
.:popcornFlix:.

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lunk
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:31 am Post

popcornflix wrote:Now you know why I want Scrivenings and Collections in iOS so much.
No, because all you describe can be done on a Macbook Air, which costs about the same as an iPadPro and weighs about as little.

It’s a pity they stopped selling the 12" Macbook because it is even better than the new Air. No fans so it’s just as quiet as an iPad, but it never gets as warm as the iPad. I’ve done a lot of my writing on the Macbook. And Scapple is available, plus everything else you might have on a laptop but not on an iPad.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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popcornflix
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:07 pm Post

lunk wrote:[No, because all you describe can be done on a Macbook Air, which costs about the same as an iPadPro and weighs about as little.


The iPad Pro is not the only device upon which Scrivener iOS runs.
.:popcornFlix:.

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lunk
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:51 pm Post

popcornflix wrote:The iPad Pro is not the only device upon which Scrivener iOS runs.
True, but to get feature parity between the Mac version and the iOS version on an iPhone or iPad Mini is impossible, due to the small screen size. The 9.7", maybe., but you really need the 12" screen to have room for it all. ,

I still don’t understand why you won’t accept the answers you get from L&L, but I guess it’s a question of personality. I usually accept the tools the way they are, or get another tool if I’m not satisfied. You want the manufacturer to change your current tool .KB has explained why iOS Scrivener will not have feature parity with Mac Scrivener. Does that mean that you will continue to be frustrated or will you at some point just say "okay", accept it and adapt to it?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS