Will iOS Scriv Work in iPad OS?

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Jaysen
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:28 pm Post

KB wrote:Scrivener on the Mac is essentially Xcode for writers.
Wait... I thought someone decided that books and apps were not the same...

KB, as a lapsed +3+ I would like to chime in with a completely off topic comment. commence fanboydom....

I, as a nerd who can't get out of the corporate world, am still thrilled by your success as the author of scrivener. It is a novel that influences the writings of other authors. While you haven't written your work of fiction, and you may never actually finish this work of non-fiction, your steadfast dedication to the plot and consistent output is something at which many on this forum marvel. All whilst raising a family.

Huzzah! to you. My the future continue to shine bright for you and yours.
Last edited by Jaysen on Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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lunk
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:36 pm Post

KB wrote:It's definitely (at least from a practical standpoint) not true that you could port the entirety of Scrivener for macOS to iPadOS, let alone iOS, though.

A finger is not nearly as precise as a mouse or trackpad. If you have a 13" MacBook Pro and look at Scrivener it should be rather obvious that it wouldn't work without mouse or trackpad, and the iPad is actually built to be used primarily with your fingers.

If the iPad worked like a Macbook, it would be a Macbook and not an iPad. :P
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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lunk
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:50 pm Post

Jaysen wrote:
KB wrote:Scrivener on the Mac is essentially Xcode for writers.
I, as a nerd who can't get out of the corporate world, am still thrilled by your success as the author of scrivener.

Maybe that's the book KB should write? "Writing Scrivener - how a personal script became a bestselling cross-device app" or something like that. :D
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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rayl
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:05 pm Post

never actually fishing
.



That seems rather a sad side effect!

Ray

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Jaysen
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:34 pm Post

rayl wrote:
never actually fishing
.

That seems rather a sad side effect!

Ray

Yes... thank god for proofreaders in my "not online" writing. Typo corrected :)
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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JoRo
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:15 pm Post

KB wrote:I only get ratty when people hint that I should retire or imply that our business will fail if we don't do x or y. :)


My uncle was a wizard engineer. He could have sold his company in his late 30s and "lived" without any financial worries (we won't say "retired" as that has, for some, negative connotations). He wanted to travel. He wanted to sculpt. He dreamt of being an artist, even if only an amateur one. At 44, he was 6 feet under. Tens of millions of net worth couldn't save him from stress.

Walk around any town today and you'll see that the majority of old single people are women (any visit to a residential home will tell you that men die earlier than women). Look at the late-middle-age couples wandering around and if one of them is clearly ill – using a walking aid or a chair etc – it will in the majority of cases be the man. Men might think they are supermen, but they're not. They always think they are the exception, but they're not. Their time is short, and it grows shorter and their life more heavily taxing with each passing year. Life flies. Work devours. What remains is dust.

I don't think you should "retire", but if you're at a point where you could "live" (and finally write your novel) rather than work under the pressure of building Mac Scrivener, iOS Scrivener, and Scapple; overseeing Windows development; considering Linux development; running L&L; dealing with the tax man and the VAT man and the NI man; dealing with the accountants and the lawyers; dealing with all the laws and regulations and constant changes in terms of tech and business practices, etc, etc, etc, then I would urge you to take that opportunity: for yourself, your partner, and your family. In 10 years, you've handled 30 years of regular work and stress. You deserve to suck on the marrow of your many successes. By the time one realises the toll exacted by such a heavy workload, it is all too often far too late. We stand too close to see the big picture. Hit the wall: too hard.

And I don't think L&L will fail. But from my experience, I see people drifting away from Scrivener because they want the consistency and simplicity (of interface and syncing) that other apps are making them habituated to. We have five Scrivener 3 licences in my close family. I am the only person still using Scrivener today. The only one who if S4 was launched tomorrow would be interested in upgrading (if things were largely as they are now). That's all fine by me, but from what I see around me, I get the feeling that Scrivener is losing out (not failing, but losing out) as the world moves on to different and more seamless application models.

I really think an iPadOS Scrivener running on macOS would suit most users (and bring some wandering sheep back into the fold). If there had to be a second Mac-only add-on (not separate) app that handled more complicated procedures for the fewer users who need such a tool, so be it. But from what I know of the writers around me, a universal app would suit them far more than the arrangement we have now (which I love, but find myself being atypical in that love).

https://bemorewithless.com/the-story-of ... fisherman/

Written (though clumsily) with love and respect and a from-the-bottom-of-my-heart sense of care.

Slàinte mhòr.

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kewms
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:05 pm Post

I think Keith explained quite clearly that L&L's sales numbers do not reflect the drop off that you claim to be seeing. It takes a lot of chutzpah to tell the owner of a business that you understand his market better than he does.

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lunk
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:20 pm Post

JoRo wrote:... but from what I see around me, I get the feeling ...
I think that’s the problem. In science we call that "anecdotal evidence". What you think you are seeing is not even an objective observation but filtered through your own perspectives, experiences and prejudices.

Where I live there is almost no difference in life span for men (81) and women (84). Part of the difference is explained by higher death rate for men during their first 20 years, not by them dying when they are middle aged.

Isn’t it really yourself you’re telling to "retire"? ;)
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:39 pm Post

JoRo wrote:
I really think an iPadOS Scrivener running on macOS would suit most users (and bring some wandering sheep back into the fold). If there had to be a second Mac-only add-on (not separate) app that handled more complicated procedures for the fewer users who need such a tool, so be it. But from what I know of the writers around me, a universal app would suit them far more than the arrangement we have now (which I love, but find myself being atypical in that love).

https://bemorewithless.com/the-story-of ... fisherman/

Written (though clumsily) with love and respect and a from-the-bottom-of-my-heart sense of care.

Slàinte mhòr.


Let me state as forcefully as I can while remaining polite, this use has ZERO desire for a universal app. I love the two versions for the way they work with the respective hardware platforms. I don’t think Keith should retire (unless he wants to get away from being told how to run his business).

Keith, thanks for having the vision to develop Scrivener in the first place and continuing to develop is as the hands down best way to write long form on Mac, iOS and Win.

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devinganger
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Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:15 pm Post

JoRo wrote:I don't think you should "retire", but


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Rayz
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Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:08 am Post

JoRo wrote:
KB wrote:I only get ratty when people hint that I should retire or imply that our business will fail if we don't do x or y. :)


My uncle was a wizard engineer. He could have sold his company in his late 30s and "lived" without any financial worries (we won't say "retired" as that has, for some, negative connotations). He wanted to travel. He wanted to sculpt. He dreamt of being an artist, even if only an amateur one. At 44, he was 6 feet under. Tens of millions of net worth couldn't save him from stress.

Walk around any town today and you'll see that the majority of old single people are women (any visit to a residential home will tell you that men die earlier than women). Look at the late-middle-age couples wandering around and if one of them is clearly ill – using a walking aid or a chair etc – it will in the majority of cases be the man. Men might think they are supermen, but they're not. They always think they are the exception, but they're not. Their time is short, and it grows shorter and their life more heavily taxing with each passing year. Life flies. Work devours. What remains is dust.

I don't think you should "retire", but if you're at a point where you could "live" (and finally write your novel) rather than work under the pressure of building Mac Scrivener, iOS Scrivener, and Scapple; overseeing Windows development; considering Linux development; running L&L; dealing with the tax man and the VAT man and the NI man; dealing with the accountants and the lawyers; dealing with all the laws and regulations and constant changes in terms of tech and business practices, etc, etc, etc, then I would urge you to take that opportunity: for yourself, your partner, and your family. In 10 years, you've handled 30 years of regular work and stress. You deserve to suck on the marrow of your many successes. By the time one realises the toll exacted by such a heavy workload, it is all too often far too late. We stand too close to see the big picture. Hit the wall: too hard.

And I don't think L&L will fail. But from my experience, I see people drifting away from Scrivener because they want the consistency and simplicity (of interface and syncing) that other apps are making them habituated to. We have five Scrivener 3 licences in my close family. I am the only person still using Scrivener today. The only one who if S4 was launched tomorrow would be interested in upgrading (if things were largely as they are now). That's all fine by me, but from what I see around me, I get the feeling that Scrivener is losing out (not failing, but losing out) as the world moves on to different and more seamless application models.

I really think an iPadOS Scrivener running on macOS would suit most users (and bring some wandering sheep back into the fold). If there had to be a second Mac-only add-on (not separate) app that handled more complicated procedures for the fewer users who need such a tool, so be it. But from what I know of the writers around me, a universal app would suit them far more than the arrangement we have now (which I love, but find myself being atypical in that love).

https://bemorewithless.com/the-story-of ... fisherman/

Written (though clumsily) with love and respect and a from-the-bottom-of-my-heart sense of care.

Slàinte mhòr.


Your experience of people drifting away from Scrivener seems a little thin, if you don’t mind me saying so, and you shouldn’t, given how you continue to advise L&L to shut up shop.
Scrivener isn’t perfect, but I’ve yet to come across a piece of software that is, and I don’t think your sample pool of five people is compelling proof that L&L is steering off-course.
As if I didn't talk enough: Dom on Writing

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Ahab
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Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:53 am Post

JoRo wrote:
Written (though clumsily) with love and respect and a from-the-bottom-of-my-heart sense of care.

Slàinte mhòr.



Pardon my American ignorance, but does Slàinte mhòr translate to a Noodge?

Ki
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Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:05 pm Post

Ahab wrote:
JoRo wrote:
Written (though clumsily) with love and respect and a from-the-bottom-of-my-heart sense of care.

Slàinte mhòr.



Pardon my American ignorance, but does Slàinte mhòr translate to a Noodge?


5 seconds on Google would have answered that question, and saved you from conforming to the stereotype of American ignorance.

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smile
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Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:02 pm Post

chipotle wrote:I suppose I shouldn't speak for anyone else, but I don't want the iOS version of Scrivener to come to the Mac. I want the missing features of the Mac version of Scrivener to come to the iPad.

Why can't I have the same compile options available on the iPad? Why can't I have scrivenings? Why can't I have a freeform corkboard? And, yes, more on topic, when iOS 13 ships, why can't I have two separate projects open at once, or two documents from the same project open in two separate panes? (Yes, I know about QuickReference on the iPad, but it's pretty clunky.) This isn't talking about two entirely separate processes having the same Scrivener project open at the same time; it's talking about what we can already do on a Mac or PC.

For that matter, why can't I rearrange documents on the iPad with drag and drop? Why can't I drag a PDF into my research folder?

All of these are kind of rhetorical questions, but they're not completely rhetorical. I'm trying to avoid sounding snippy, but when I'm hearing about people are actually doing on the iPad Pro every day, the subtext of so many "the iPad just can't handle the power of full Scrivener" posts here--or, let's be honest, the plain text of them--gets kind of dispiriting. There are people editing 4K videos, NPR-quality podcasts, and, yes, novels. Some of them are, of course, editing them in Scrivener on the iPad. I've been one of them. But I can't help but think of Matt Gemmell's comparison of Scrivener and Ulysses:

On the iPad, Ulysses is the mobile version of the desktop app, and Scrivener is the mobile companion, at least for now. I wish Scrivener’s iPad counterpart was a bit more output-focused like its big brother, and didn’t have the persistent chip on its shoulder of Use me until you take the manuscript somewhere else to REALLY finish it. I wish that the sync wasn’t modal, like cloud syncing was just invented this year.

The thing is, Scrivener is great. I have an emotional connection to it. Ulysses, on the other hand, tries exceptionally hard to tell me that I don't get it, and that text is zen, and formlessness is the way, and oh but I can still totally make ePubs and PDFs without widows and orphans. I have a sense of respect for it. I like them both, and they both piss me off. Scriv is somebody's little brother, complete with second-child syndrome. Ulysses wants to go and visit the library, but won't let itself skip the t'ai chi class.

I get that Scrivener is all about KB's vision of his best writing app, not about being all things to all people. What us iPad-loving nerds would like is for Scrivener on the iPad to get closer to that vision than it is now. We want it to lose a little of that second-child syndrome. I have no doubt that iOS Scrivener will work in iPadOS; I want it to take the next step and take advantage of iPadOS.


Seeing as this thread seems to really be about iPadOS and what may or may not be possible, rather then drifting into negativity or name calling, I'm going to say that this still sums it up quite nicely for me.

I agree with Chjipotle -"I don't want the iOS version of Scrivener to come to the Mac. I want the missing features of the Mac version of Scrivener to come to the iPad."

iPadOS does seem to be a significant departure from previous versions of IOS. So the question is really what is now possible?

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lunk
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Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:32 pm Post

smile wrote:iPadOS does seem to be a significant departure from previous versions of IOS.

It’s not. There is a huge gap between Mac OS and iOS/iPadOS, but only a small step between iOS and iPadOS. And although many seem to assume that iPadOS is all about 12" iPadPro, an iScrivener needs to work just as well on a small iPad Mini, without external keyboard. And unless KB wants to make a specific iPadOS version, iScrivener must be usable on the smallest of iPhones as well.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS