Will iOS Scriv Work in iPad OS?

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popcornflix
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:18 am Post

Keith didn't intend to make a screenwriting app; he added screenwriting features because many customers begged him for them. That was a concession to his users, a departure from his single-minded personal vision.

There's always a chance that he might decide to hire more developers who can solve Scrivener's problems.

We can always hope.
.:popcornFlix:.

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lunk
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:40 am Post

popcornflix wrote:We can always hope.

We?
Since when did you become royal? :)

Or do you claim to represent a majority of Scrivener users? On what ground? You definitely don't represent my view on this.

I hope Keith does NOT clutter Scrivener with lots and lots of more and more special gadgets and whistles and whatever. MS Word 1.0 was a very handy word processor, but as time has gone by Microsoft has made it more and more difficult to use by adding so many different things that it gradually has become more difficult to find the few things you really want to use.

I have seen this in other apps as well. It starts with at brilliant idea, a very useful app, but then some users demand that something is added. Other users that other things are added, and the app creator wants to be helpful and start adding one thing after another. So one day new potential users can't seem to find the basic stuff which in the beginning made the app successful, because the app has become too complicated. So they skip it and search for a less complicated app.

There is always a conflict between new and experienced users, and developers need new users to find the app and think "this is just what I've been searching for" and not to think "this seems like a very complicated app, I'd better search for something a bit simpler".
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

Jo
JoRo
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:38 am Post

Save for a few want-to-be-assertive voices on the forum, my experience offline and online is that far more people would side with the balanced views and reasonings expressed by popcornFlix than not; easily a ratio topping 100:1.

And all of the points made above and about Keith being a sole developer and and and and and ... are all reasons why popcornFlix is right. But it seems the people making those points just don’t realise the implications of what they are saying.

Slàinte mhòr.

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lunk
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:57 am Post

JoRo wrote:... the balanced views and reasonings expressed by popcornFlix ...

The thing is, those who don’t share his views don’t find them "balanced". ;)
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

si
sidderke
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:58 am Post

lunk wrote:I hope Keith does NOT clutter Scrivener with lots and lots of more and more special gadgets and whistles and whatever. difficult to find the few things you really want to use.


And if someone wants Scrivener IOS to become more powerful, like Scrivener on the Mac? Are you saying the Mac version has too many features? And if not, will Scrivener IOS be 'ruined' if it has the same features as the Mac version?

I am not saying it has to be feature parity one on one. I quite like the feature set of Scrivener IOS save for some things I am missing.
But every time someone counters one of your defenses you come up with a completely new argument. We can agree to disagree but I also think it's all a valid discussion and most of the points made (by either party) are valid and respectful.

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lunk
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:23 am Post

sidderke wrote:And if someone wants Scrivener IOS to become more powerful, like Scrivener on the Mac? Are you saying the Mac version has too many features?

Judging by the many requests for help in here, where people sometimes can’t find rather simple things, indicate to me that Scrivener is approaching the balance point where adding more stuff to please experienced users may scare away new users. A learning curve should be S-shaped so new users can quickly get going and gradually learn to use more features, but adding more stuff gradually changes the shape until it starts with a steep slope. The way I see it, this is where Tinderbox ended up.
Should the iOS version become more like the Mac version. Yes, why not, but without becoming so complicated that a new user can’t immediately understand how to use it. iOS apps are supposed to be so intuitive to use that they don’t need a manual, not even a large tutorial project. If an app requires that, I think it may be a bit too complicated.

An iPad is not a laptop and it shouldn’t try to become one.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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Brammy
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:04 pm Post

My wish list for iOS Scrivener is pretty small

- A roadmap from Keith on what his vision for the iOS version. I am not looking for dates, but just an idea on where he wants the app to go.
- More sync service options. We have beaten this one to death, but Scriv is the only app I use that requires Dropbox to sync.
- Be able to use my export settings from Desktop Scrivener. I don't care if I need to create them on my Mac, but I'd like to use them on iOS. Right now, my iOS exports are just to help proofread.

I don't really expect the last two anytime soon.

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kewms
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:29 pm Post

lunk wrote:There is always a conflict between new and experienced users, and developers need new users to find the app and think "this is just what I've been searching for" and not to think "this seems like a very complicated app, I'd better search for something a bit simpler".


Arguably, Scrivener has gone about as far as it can without running into that problem. The learning curve already comes up quite often when people are deciding whether and when to switch to Scrivener.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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sidderke
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:51 pm Post

Off topic but your guys' included tutorial is great to get up to speed with Scrivener in a couple of hours.

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popcornflix
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:40 pm Post

lunk wrote:I hope Keith does NOT clutter Scrivener with lots and lots of more and more special gadgets and whistles and whatever.

If you'd read my posts a little more closely, you'd know that I wasn't advocating adding new features. I simply want the existing features to work properly.

I'd like the screenplay formatting to work as well as the competing screenwriting apps. I'd settle for it working as well as WriterSolo, which is a 100% free app written by a sole programmer. It's not bells & whistles I want, it's cut/paste and drag/drop to work like all the other apps do it.

I'd like iOS versions of Scrivener to work like OSX Scrivener. That means index cards on iphones. it means scrivenings and collections.

Other software developers manage to fix their products. I hold out hope that L&L will do the same for Scrivener.
.:popcornFlix:.

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popcornflix
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:42 pm Post

FWIW, I have to work on a complex MS-WORD document this week generated by a law firm. I'm so impressed with how Scrivener handles and interacts with this document. It really is an amazing tool for many kinds of writing.
.:popcornFlix:.

Mi
MikeGardiner
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Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:50 am Post

I'm a little surprised by the pushback on some of the comments made by PopcornFlix, to be honest. He's the only one looking at the problem through a business strategy lens, has made some great points, and has been quite a bit more patient with his replies than I probably would be.

As for my opinion, I just hope that Keith is looking at this problem very hard. Apple have made it clear which way the wind is blowing; both short term (Catalyst) and long term (SwiftUI). I switch between an iPad Pro 12.9 and a MacBook Pro multiple times over the day, and the lack of feature parity / lopsided relationship between desktop and iOS is at odds with Apple's vision, which appears to be all about unification rather than disparity.

Will it impact the viability of Scrivener in the eyes of Apple at some point in the future? No idea, but I'm glad we're having this conversation :)

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lunk
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Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:32 pm Post

MikeGardiner wrote:the lack of feature parity / lopsided relationship between desktop and iOS is at odds with Apple's vision, which appears to be all about unification rather than disparity.
Well, maybe that’s why we see things differently? I don’t think the new Mac Pro suggests that Apples vision is "all about unification". Making iOS more capable and introducing iPad OS still doesn’t suggest that they want to turn all iDevices into some kind of Micro Macs in the future.

And for this part...
MikeGardiner wrote:PopcornFlix:.. - - -. He's the only one looking at the problem through a business strategy lens.
Well, maybe that’s why I and others don’t agree, because we perceive Scrivener and L&L not only as a business but also as the manifestation of an artistic creation and a choice of lifestyle. Ones life is not a business, it’s... a life.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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devinganger
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Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:04 pm Post

MikeGardiner wrote:He's the only one looking at the problem through a business strategy lens


It's easy to claim to look at an issue though a specific lens when you're doing it in the abstract.

I'm pretty sure KB looks very closely at all of the business aspects, as he and his employees are the ones impacted if he guesses wrong.

All we here in the forums are doing is armchair quarterbacking without access to a lot of the relevant data. We're like the guys up in the stadiums who've each had four beers before the first half is over, trying to yell at Lionel Messi and tell him what he's doing wrong.
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Winner "Best in Class", 2018 My First Supervillain Photo Shoot

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MikeGardiner
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Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:19 pm Post

devinganger wrote:All we here in the forums are doing is armchair quarterbacking without access to a lot of the relevant data. We're like the guys up in the stadiums who've each had four beers before the first half is over, trying to yell at Lionel Messi and tell him what he's doing wrong.


Agreed, except that I don't think anyone is telling Keith he's wrong - we're all here because we use and love Scrivener. It's just a refreshing conversation to have amidst a sea of posts trying to troubleshoot formatting :D