The Legal Issues of Being Forced into using Dropbox

User avatar
yosimiti
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:56 am
Platform: Mac

Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:27 pm Post

I realize all the problems Keith underscored with regards to the problem of using cloud services outside of Dropbox. Everything checked off, according to him, and I hear him loud and clear.

My problem is I feel that users are essentially forced into using the services of only one cloud company. While there may be problems in using other cloud services, I think users should still have a choice in what service they want to use and not be forced into using Dropbox. I realize there's likely nothing legally wrong with the choice Keith has made, but I can't help but feel pushed into using a product I don't generally use. I think even if there are manifold problems with using other services, users should still have a choice in using them, with the caveat of course, that they are using them at their own risk.

User avatar
lunk
Posts: 4197
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:24 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Sweden 64° N

Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:47 pm Post

You are not forced to do anything. You are free to choose not to use iOS Scrivener at all.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

User avatar
RonJeffries
Posts: 302
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:19 pm
Platform: Mac

Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:10 pm Post

Keith, like any product developer, needs to make wise decisions about where to invest his limited time and money. If I were prioritizing work to be done -- especially extensive work like adding connections to additional cloud services -- I would personally put it fairly low on the list. Once all the goodies for writing and exporting were in, I might look to another service. As a Mac / iPad user, I'd prefer iCloud.

Of course, I only use Dropbox and iCloud, and that may be affecting my thinking. But one way or another, no developer or team can do everything, and they have to decide what to do next, and what to defer.

Ki
Kinsey
Posts: 418
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:06 pm
Platform: Mac + Windows

Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:14 pm Post

yosimiti wrote: I realize there's likely nothing legally wrong with the choice Keith has made, but I can't help but feel pushed into using a product I don't generally use. I think even if there are manifold problems with using other services, users should still have a choice in using them, with the caveat of course, that they are using them at their own risk.


Donald Trump-esque reasoning. Bravo.

Ji
JimRac
Posts: 1722
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:06 pm
Platform: Win + iOS

Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:19 pm Post

yosimiti wrote:I realize all the problems Keith underscored with regards to the problem of using cloud services outside of Dropbox. Everything checked off, according to him, and I hear him loud and clear.

My problem is I feel that users are essentially forced into using the services of only one cloud company. While there may be problems in using other cloud services, I think users should still have a choice in what service they want to use and not be forced into using Dropbox. I realize there's likely nothing legally wrong with the choice Keith has made, but I can't help but feel pushed into using a product I don't generally use. I think even if there are manifold problems with using other services, users should still have a choice in using them, with the caveat of course, that they are using them at their own risk.


You knew the DropBox limitation up front. L&L was very clear about it.

Why would you buy IOS Scriv if you didn't want to use DropBox?

And if you are uncomfortable that only DropBox is supported by IOS Scriv, then there are other tools/methods to synch Scrivener with IOS. Move on to one of them.
I’m just a customer.

Jo
Jordi Mora

Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:40 pm Post

lunk wrote:You are not forced to do anything. You are free to choose not to use iOS Scrivener at all.


Absolutely - there are no 'legal issues' - what a fatuous topic.
Last edited by Jordi Mora on Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
xiamenese
Posts: 4424
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:32 am
Platform: Mac
Location: London or Exeter, UK.

Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:43 pm Post

And stop wasting your time and energy pre-judging things and thinking yourself into a corner the whole time. Get on with your studies instead of procrastinating on these forums!
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
iMac 27" (late 2015) 10.15.6, 24GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 16GB RAM, 2TB SSID
2017 iPad, iPadOS 14, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

de
derick
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:58 pm

Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:46 pm Post

This is getting silly. If you don't want to use Dropbox, sync your files with iTunes. Nobody is forcing you to do anything.

User avatar
lunk
Posts: 4197
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:24 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Sweden 64° N

Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:49 pm Post

... or switch to Storyist, Ulysses, or ... *shudder* ... Word. :shock:
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

Sp
SpringfieldMH
Posts: 588
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:18 am
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS

Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:54 pm Post

On OS X and Windows, cloud backup/sync access and integration is generally done in the operating system, via add-ons (DropBox client as an example), independent of, transparent to and outside of applications. Applications themselves being aware of, knowledgeable about or directly interacting with such is optional. Whether a particular cloud service can handle various applications is the responsibility of the user and cloud service provider. An application developer can optionally advise regarding cloud services compatible with its apps, and can optionally directly integrate/support some such, but ultimately what cloud services a user opts to install and use is outside the application developer's knowledge and/or control.

On a sandboxed operating system such as iOS, with the possible exception of iCloud, cloud backup/sync access and integration has to be built into the applications, rather than added to the operating system that the applications run on. And L&L knows from research and real world experience that, at least for now, iCloud, OneDrive and Google Drive don't reliably handle live Scrivener projects.

So imagine what L&L's legal, financial and reputation exposure would be if, knowing this, they were to go ahead and build in code for such and claim to support such.

P.S. The L&L folks say it better than I can, in the following threads. And with that, I'm done with this thread.
AmberV
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=35242
KB
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=35161
Last edited by SpringfieldMH on Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm a Scrivener enthusiast and (used to be) experienced in PC/network support... but I am not a Scrivener expert. And I'm still editing on my first book. So take any opinion or advice I offer with a large grain of salt.

User avatar
SarsenLintel
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:46 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS

Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:51 pm Post

:roll:

User avatar
rdale
Posts: 2042
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:07 pm
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: St. Louis, MO
Contact:

Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:52 pm Post

KB wrote:To back up a project:

1. In the projects screen, tap "Edit".

2. Select the project you want to back up in the projects list.

3. Tap the "share" button in the footer bar of the projects list.

This will zip up your file and you can choose where to send it - e.g. to a Dropbox folder or to an email account.

All the best,
Keith


Or to the Message app, or a number of other apps which register as able to receive files. Dropbox never needs to be in the equation at all.
FKA: robertdguthrie
AKA: R Dale Guthrie, Robert, Mr. Obscure, and "Oh, it's you again".

User avatar
yosimiti
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:56 am
Platform: Mac

Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:03 pm Post

Wow..so hear are some of my thoughts:

1. Apparently, now I think like Donald Trump; a man, I must admit, who scares the crap out of me -- alas, this forum should not be used to discussed political matters, and I've decided to not say anything more other than I feel quite offended by that.

2. You are forced, in a way, to have to use Dropbox when you download the app. There really aren't any other options. If you really want to get technical, when you buy Scrivener -- and it's a hefty bill for an app -- you should not be forced to use Dropbox or use any other software because that's not what you paid for. If that were the case, then the app should have been advertised this way. It's a Scrivener/Dropbox app, and not a Scrivener app ultimately. On top of that, you're essentially paying one company, to use the free services of another company. I think there's something fundamentally off with that arrangement.

3. All this is coming the fact, that I'm having a lot of conflict issues with Dropbox and the app integration and would like to have other options.

4. I don't think I've trapped myself into a corner whatsoever. If fact, I find most of all your arguments rather paltry and border on being personal and not really intellectual. I think my arguments still stand and I sincerely hope something should be done. This forum is meant to be a place where questions and concerns are to be addressed, and not a place for personal attacks.

Ki
Kinsey
Posts: 418
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:06 pm
Platform: Mac + Windows

Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:29 pm Post

1. My apologies for the offence caused. Obviously a poor attempt to be lighthearted. I just failed to see the link between the implicit threat of legal action in the thread title and the content of your original post.

2. Others above have pointed out that you do not have to use Dropbox. That can't be stressed enough. You can file swap with iTunes, or zip and send through other services.

3. I presume you have followed all of the instructions contained in the knowledge base article on how to set sync up properly, and are following best practice in terms of not working on two separate devices without syncing in between? If you're still getting conflicts, then you really should email support (which I am sure you have already done). I have been switching back and forth between my laptop and iPhone all day with a project of over 100,000 words, just testing. Multiple changes made in multiple files, and no conflicts, so you are definitely not seeing typical behaviour when instructions are followed.

4. You haven't made an argument, you have offered a viewpoint. There is a difference. Most of the replies have been helpful in pointing out alternatives to Dropbox syncing. It doesn't matter how sincerely you hope for something when it has been explained clearly why what you are hoping for is not currently possible.

I'm out now, best of luck.

User avatar
lunk
Posts: 4197
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:24 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Sweden 64° N

Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:18 pm Post

yosimiti wrote:Wow..so hear are some of my thoughts:

2. You are forced, in a way, to have to use Dropbox when you download the app. There really aren't any other options.

3. All this is coming the fact, that I'm having a lot of conflict issues with Dropbox and the app integration and would like to have other options.


No, you don't have to use Dropbox.
You can work only on the iOS app, in which case you don't need Dropbox. You can transfer files via iTunes, in which case you don't need Dropbox.
It is only if you decide to work on a project on both a desktop and on the iOS app, and refuse to transfer via iTUnes, that you need Dropbox.

The big problem is that all your posts on the forum are about something you don't like about Scrivener, or would like to be different than it currently is, and you never accept any answers. When you are proven to be wrong about something you just start a new thread in here, about the same thing or something similar or something completely new, without ever acknowledging that you actually were wrong or had misunderstood.

Your logic in this thread is similar to someone buying a car and then complaining about only being allowed to drive on roads. You should be allowed to drive where ever you want to go, and not only on roads built by someone else than the car company.

Why don't you use all your energy to actually write something, a short story or novel, instead of just trying to start a fight and be a general nuisance? :)
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS