syncitus interruptus?

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GrahamGrün
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Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:49 am Post

Did I observe correctly that syncing is interrupted when the screen locks?

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Ursula
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Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:48 am Post

I had this behaviour on my iPad (mini 2), but not on my iPhone (5S).

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lunk
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Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:57 am Post

kOS apps generally stop when not open and in focus, push notifications being the exception.
I think L&L answered that syncing stops if the screen locks or you swap to another app.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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fredster
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Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:47 pm Post

lunk wrote:kOS apps generally stop when not open and in focus, push notifications being the exception.
I think L&L answered that syncing stops if the screen locks or you swap to another app.



Eek, that's frightening.

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lunk
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Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:06 pm Post

fredster wrote:Eek, that's frightening.


Why? It only means that you have to wait for the few seconds it takes for the app to save any changed files to Dropbox.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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GrahamGrün
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Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:10 pm Post

When using it mobile (which it is made for) you might not have a good internet connection and you might be in a hurry. I think of jotting down something in between and then tucking the phone away. I was hoping it would finish to sync in my pocket with the screen locked. With a bad connection it can be a lot more than a few seconds.

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Magnus
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Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:23 pm Post

lunk wrote:kOS apps generally stop when not open and in focus, push notifications being the exception.
I think L&L answered that syncing stops if the screen locks or you swap to another app.


Push isn't the only exception - An app can choose support 'Background Refresh', and in the iOS settings you can allow background refresh per app.

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derick
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Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:51 pm Post

In the scenario you describe it would still save the files locally, then offer to sync the changes when you open Scrivener for iOS again.

But if you really anticipate using your phone to capture ideas quickly on the fly with a lousy internet connection and then potentially forgetting to sync Scrivener, you're going to be better off using a program like Drafts or Byword or another plain text editor. Saving plain text you'll be sending a few hundred bytes to the cloud in a single file. Saving a Scrivener project you'll be sending a single file of edited text plus the Binder and other background files necessary for maintaining the project structure. So you're adding overhead to the sync by using Scrivener.

My solution (since long before Scrivener for iOS) for capturing stuff that I want readily accessible in Scrivener for Mac has been to point my Scratch Pad in Scrivener for Mac to a Dropbox folder and use Drafts to dump stuff there for later triage.
Last edited by derick on Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lunk
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Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:53 pm Post

derick wrote:My solution (since long before Scrivener for iOS) for capturing stuff that I want readily accessible in Scrivener for Mac has been to point my Scratch Pad in Scrivener for Mac to a Dropbox folder and use Drafts to dump stuff there for later triage.


I have the same workflow. Works very well.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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GrahamGrün
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Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:02 pm Post

That is exactly what I want to get rid of. I'm so glad Scrivener for iOS lets me store everything where it belongs immediatly, whithout a workaround. And of course it's not only about notes, it can also mean making a little change or adding a sentence to a current scene on the fly, that just comes to mind while at work or in the bus or whereever.
Of course it's still possible to do that and postpone syncing until you have time and/or better internet.

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kewms
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Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:57 pm Post

In my experience with the beta, the best solution is to just postpone syncing until you have time and a reliable connection. Scrivener projects are complex beasts, and the consequences of an interrupted or incomplete sync can be pretty severe. At the same time, iOS Scrivener itself is pretty reliable. Short of catastrophic failure of the device itself (or theft), your Scrivener projects should be pretty safe.

FWIW, I've nearly abandoned Evernote, which was my pre-iOS Scrivener solution to this dilemma.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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narrsd
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Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:06 pm Post

Magnus wrote:
lunk wrote:kOS apps generally stop when not open and in focus, push notifications being the exception.
I think L&L answered that syncing stops if the screen locks or you swap to another app.


Push isn't the only exception - An app can choose support 'Background Refresh', and in the iOS settings you can allow background refresh per app.


That's true, but it's not enabled for Scrivener. I can imagine the reasons why, as so-called background operation could easily make real problems for Scrivener's updates. Think of an uneven connection as you walk or drive around, so that a sync attempt is multiply interrupted. Here I suspect Keith as ever chose to take a well-considered safe side...my view anyway, having dealt a bit with such things.

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kewms
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Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:02 pm Post

I can't remember the post exactly -- maybe it was in the beta forum -- but IIRC there were two reasons for this behavior.

One is cost to the user. Scrivener projects can easily become large enough that a user might not want to use their cell data plan for synchronization.

The second is data integrity. Having synchronization stop and restart repeatedly as the user moves in and out of connection 'zones' is just asking for trouble. Picture having an updated .scrivx file (the master index used to build the Binder), but not the new data files associated with it.

There's also a potential performance issue: what if there's a Scrivener synchronization running in background while the user is trying to use a mapping tool that needs real time data updates?

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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Silverdragon
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Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:51 pm Post

kewms wrote:I can't remember the post exactly -- maybe it was in the beta forum -- but IIRC there were two reasons for this behavior.

One is cost to the user. Scrivener projects can easily become large enough that a user might not want to use their cell data plan for synchronization.

The second is data integrity. Having synchronization stop and restart repeatedly as the user moves in and out of connection 'zones' is just asking for trouble. Picture having an updated .scrivx file (the master index used to build the Binder), but not the new data files associated with it.

There's also a potential performance issue: what if there's a Scrivener synchronization running in background while the user is trying to use a mapping tool that needs real time data updates?

Katherine

All excellent points. Thanks for the info!
So you know where I'm coming from:
  • I write fiction. I'm not an L&L employee.
  • Mac Scrivener 3.1.4, MacBook Air 11, MacOS 10.14.6 (Mojave)
  • IOS Scrivener 1.2; iPhone 8+, iPad 6th gen; iOS 13.1.3
  • Website: https://silverdrag0n.wordpress.com

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GrahamGrün
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Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:43 am Post

Yes, background synchronisation is not possible, I learned that from Keith. I was just not aware that continuing to sync with a locked screen means background activity.
My problem is this: I work on a non-cellular iPad during my lunch-break. I can connect it to my personal hotspot on my iPhone, but that's not very fast and not very reliable. I want to work as long as I can, using my break most effectively and then go back to work, still chewing and wasting no time with waiting for the sync. But I can't wait with syncing until I get home either, as I might do little stuff on the iPhone during the rest of the day. So I guess I'll best find me a nice cafe with free WiFi for my lunchbreak.