Is Scapple still being actively developed?

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AmberV
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Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:09 pm Post

I would also add that most of the things on that list are things we have on our own list to look into, once we come back to looking at Scapple. They may not all come to fruition, to be clear, but better style application and management as well as real-time alignment aids are definitely things we have some ideas about. Are there things that can be polished? Always.

So once again to the OP, despite your strongly phrased speculations otherwise, we will return to Scapple when the time is right to do so, and we’ll do so in force—not just token aesthetic refreshes and ceaselessly tooling around merely to make updates frequent enough so that people can come in and say, “ah, this program has been updated frequently, it must be good!”. Good things can exist without changing much or quickly, and if something is good for you, maybe that’s all you need. I believe that was the point of the hammer comment, not that the hammer as a tool hasn’t evolved over the course of 60,000 years. That was a personal metaphor, not an anthropological one.

However it is becoming increasingly clear that L&L have no intention of improving it whatsoever.


Never mind what I said earlier, it seems it doesn’t fit within your narrative. We have a difference in opinion over whether good software requires constant fiddling to be good. Personally, some of my favourite utilities don’t even have web pages any more. Some of my favourite utilities have so many updates I’ve turned off their update checkers because it’s annoying. Hey, my favourite Linux distribution is Debian precisely because they spend a long time getting things right, and then you sit on a stable version of the OS and all of your software for years while they work on the next.

What others are perhaps referring to as “aggressive” is that you’ve taken this difference of opinion and projected your own sensibilities onto ours. Because we don’t frequently update, that means we consider it dead and are arrogant in thinking nothing can be done to improve it, etc. It couldn’t possibly be that we just don’t agree with you on this point. :)
.:.
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kewms
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Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:24 pm Post

ship69 wrote:Jaysen: "Aggressive"? I genuinely have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. There seems to have been some misunderstanding about the reasoning behind some of the points I was trying to make so I have been seeking to clarify my position - that is hardly "aggressive". Does anyone here feel personally attacked? To the best of my knowledge I am making no personal ad hominem attack I am merely explaining my thinking. If I express extreme surprise that is because I am genuinely surprised. However surprise is not emphatically not the same thing as aggression.

Jaysen, you have criticised my style of presentation, but I don't think I have done the same thing. I certainly have not resorted to any form of name calling.

I started this thread to see if Scapple is still being actively developed. Apparently it is not. Which is fine... But personally I'm not investing my time or money in something that has ceased development. The nagging suspicion is that is something better out there that has blown it out of the water, either that or L&L are in survival mode and in danger of going bust. Either that or they are too arrogant about what they have created (which seems good, but is a long, LONG way from prefect). If some sort of re-assurance from the developers was forthcoming that Scapple is not (in a developmental sense at least) "dead" that might change things.

However it is becoming increasingly clear that L&L have no intention of improving it whatsoever.


Well, let's see. You've posted two different threads on the exact same topic. And in both those threads, you've chosen to insist on your "Scapple is dead" narrative in the face of frequent reassurance that it is not. And you've chosen to share a wide range of opinions, none of them complimentary, about L&L's purported success (or lack thereof), software development methodology, and customer relationships.

So no, you haven't sunk to the level of ad hominem attacks (yet), but your claim of wide-eyed innocence is on pretty shaky ground.

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devinganger
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Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:33 pm Post

AmberV wrote:I would also add that most of the things on that list are things we have on our own list to look into, once we come back to looking at Scapple. They may not all come to fruition, to be clear, but better style application and management as well as real-time alignment aids are definitely things we have some ideas about. Are there things that can be polished? Always.


Yay! Good news indeed. Right now, I *want* to use Scapple, but the little things are just a little too much -- if your analysis leads towards addressing some of these issues, I for one shall be eternally grateful.
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ship69
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:06 pm Post

Sorry I have been finding it hard to work out who on this thread works for L&L.

If L&L are still thinking about doing at least some enhancements Scapple that is quite different, and is totally at odds to the impression several users seem to have been giving with all their talk.

That's excellent news in fact! :)

> I would also add that most of the things on that list are things we have on our own
> list to look into, once we come back to looking at Scapple.
And that's extremely gratifying to hear not only that there is such a list but also that your thinking is in line with mine.

I still say it's disappointing to see something like Scapple having NOT been updated over the course of a full, what is it, 2.5 years, since "v1.0.0.0" as I find it hard to imagine that at least some of the small changes suggested would take long to implement. And 2.5 years is a long time for devinganger's "small splinters" to niggle.

To get clear it's not that I see any need for updates just for the sake of updates. It's more like it's reassuring to the user community that even if the time available is only say 2 or 3 hours per month that the requests for specific items of fine-tuning & polish are actually being heard.

Anyhow, that sounds promising. I shall probably sign up now. :)

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devinganger
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:26 pm Post

ship69 wrote:I still say it's disappointing to see something like Scapple having NOT been updated over the course of a full, what is it, 2.5 years, since "v1.0.0.0" as I find it hard to imagine that at least some of the small changes suggested would take long to implement. And 2.5 years is a long time for devinganger's "small splinters" to niggle.

To get clear it's not that I see any need for updates just for the sake of updates. It's more like it's reassuring to the user community that even if the time available is only say 2 or 3 hours per month that the requests for specific items of fine-tuning & polish are actually being heard.

Anyhow, that sounds promising. I shall probably sign up now. :)


To be fair to L&L, a lot of us don't want them necessarily adding every feature request or change that comes along in the forums -- many of the people who come in and make suggestions are either making suggestions that have already been discussed and turned down for one reason or another, suggestions that don't need to be implemented because they need to spend a little more time using the software and figure out how to accomplish the task (or equivalent), or suggestions that won't get implemented because they don't fit the vision for the program.
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ship69
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Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:21 pm Post

ship69 wrote:To be fair to L&L, a lot of us don't want them necessarily adding every feature request or change that comes along...


Absolutely! There are many and various directions the whole thing could be taken that aren't what Scapple is trying to do. The thing is to understand what Scapple is about and find some small ways that move things forward - things that make Scapple that bit better at doing exactly what it is trying to do. And do so without getting the way of the learning curve. User trials with naive users can in fact be a particularly good way to do this.

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garpu
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Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:01 pm Post

IMO, Scapple is what software should be: it does one thing, and it does it well. (Why, yes, I am a Linux geek.) Plus, unlike some other mind mapping software, it doesn't force you to have one (and only one) root node.

Next thing you know, people will be demanding a blue background with white text on everything.
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Jaysen
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Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:04 pm Post

I thought this was cleared up before... black background with green or orange letters.
Jaysen

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devinganger
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Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:03 am Post

garpu wrote:IMO, Scapple is what software should be: it does one thing, and it does it well. (Why, yes, I am a Linux geek.)


Don't you mean UNIX, not Linux? :P
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Jaysen
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Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:16 am Post

devinganger wrote:
garpu wrote:IMO, Scapple is what software should be: it does one thing, and it does it well. (Why, yes, I am a Linux geek.)


Don't you mean UNIX, not Linux? :P

Oh no. Don't get me started...

Linux != BSD (OSX) != Solaris != Minix != Unix

They have some common traits based on SysV and other implementation standards, but they are not all the same. Having worked in all of them I can tell you without hesitation that all these "derivatives" are very much unique.
Jaysen

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Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:56 pm Post

ship69 wrote:To get clear is Literature and Latte are hoping to keep making money from this product indefinitely without any enhancements of any sort?

ship69 wrote:But personally I'm not investing my time or money


OK, I can't help responding, specifically to the "money" part. Scapple costs fifteen dollars. Fif. Teen. Dollars. That's less than most bags of groceries. Less than some people spend on Starbucks in a day. Less than two movie tickets. Less than three (maybe two?) fashion magazines. Yes, I realize that for many people it's a meaningful amount of money, but for those people that can't afford to take a risk, there's the demo!

If you want to complain that it's a lovely tool and it's a terrible waste not to have it also do X, Y, and Z...OK, I will probably still disagree with you. But you're really complaining about the money?! I read about the tool elseforum, came over to see what it is, and bought the thing without bothering to spend more than ten minutes with the demo. If I use it for even three months, it will have paid for itself.

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ptram
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Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:05 am Post

While Scapple might not have been update for years, I've continued to use it nearly daily. It's simple, effective, and manages even the biggest plans. I would love to see some refinements, but that's all. It works great as it is. Make it more complex, and it will weight too much, and no longer be that wonderful blank plan over which to allow the mind to fly freely.

Paolo

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devinganger
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Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:07 am Post

Jaysen wrote:
devinganger wrote:
garpu wrote:IMO, Scapple is what software should be: it does one thing, and it does it well. (Why, yes, I am a Linux geek.)


Don't you mean UNIX, not Linux? :P

Oh no. Don't get me started...

Linux != BSD (OSX) != Solaris != Minix != Unix


Yes, I know. Worked with most of them myself. My point is that UNIX is the one with the "many small tools, each one doing one thing well" philosophy (excluding emacs), Linux not so much (witness the last decade's worth of kernel drive bloat, not to mention some of the associated subsystems). :)
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JimRac
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Tue May 10, 2016 10:01 pm Post

ptram wrote:While Scapple might not have been update for years, I've continued to use it nearly daily. It's simple, effective, and manages even the biggest plans. I would love to see some refinements, but that's all. It works great as it is. Make it more complex, and it will weight too much, and no longer be that wonderful blank plan over which to allow the mind to fly freely.

Paolo


I agree with this and bought Scapple over the weekend.
I’m just a customer.