Please finally add iCloud Sync

Me
Mengzi
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:16 am
Platform: Mac

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:26 am Post

Dear Sirs, I really would like to use your software more often. But as I am traveling a lot using my iPad on my travels. The synching back and forth is just a nightmare. As the iCloudSync did get better over time now and as a lot of other programmers now offer iCloudSync with their also complex software, I am sure that could be done.
The problem with Dropbox is and always was security: I am not allowed to install it on my Mac.
So please look into Synching with iCloud,


Thanks

mb
mbbntu
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Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:16 pm Post

These comments about syncing haven't changed recently, as far as I can tell:

https://scrivener.tenderapp.com/help/kb/ios/dropbox-syncing-with-ios#what-about-other-syncing-solutions-

I note that it says that Dropbox sync involves thousands of lines of code. :shock:
You should judge people not by how close they get to the top, but by how far they have come from the bottom. Some people have a mountain to climb just to get to the place where others start out. (Me, 2010)

No
NoHope
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Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:12 pm Post

The problem with Dropbox is and always was security: I am not allowed to install it on my Mac.
So please look into Synching with iCloud


Dropbox security is pretty much in line with every other cloud offering with possible exception of iCloud. I am aware that Apple don’t allow installation of any other cloud other than iCloud and one other who I guess managed to convince them their data could never be snooped on by internal staff to that company. Other companies may gave various restrictions based on their business case.

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xiamenese
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Fri May 01, 2020 1:01 pm Post

Im in communication with Alfons Schimdt, the developer of Notebooks.app, which I really like. He pointed me to the FAQ on the website until he finds time to answer directly. I read this, which I think is apposite to this thread:

Why doesn’t Notebooks Sync with iCloud?

We have been continuously testing, evaluating and working on iCloud sync over the past couple of years, but we still don’t offer an option to sync Notebooks with iCloud. Although iCloud has much improved, a couple of issues remain and keep us from activating iCloud sync in Notebooks. Here are a few details:

Notebooks needs a certain level of control over timing and sequence of synchronization. We need to make sure that certain files arrive in Notebooks before others, and some documents should not be synced at all. iCloud does not give us any control.

When syncing a huge number of folders and documents, iCloud sync tends to get stuck. This is not specific to Notebooks, it even happens when syncing a larger folder between two Macs via iCloud Drive, for example. This can quickly become a serious issue if you wanted to move a considerable number of documents to Notebooks through iCloud, as you may have to wait for a couple of hours until everything shows up. Moreover, you do not have any feedback about what is going on.

Even when sync has been set up, small changes can cause items to suddenly disappear from Notebooks or iCloud, and show up again a few moments or minutes later. This even happens with Contacts or Calendar, but it is not acceptable with documents or whole sets of documents.

These are the main reasons why we still do not offer sync with iCloud. We are not alone in this situation, as apps like Scrivener cannot use iCloud for similar reasons.


Mark
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
iMac 27" (late 2015) 10.15.4, 24GB RAM, 512GB SSID
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vi
virtualshift
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Fri May 08, 2020 11:22 pm Post

Not having iCloud sync has definitely been one of my biggest complaint with this application. And even though I see that somebody has posted notes from another developer about all the reasons why they have not been able to use iCloud, I want to point out that that is an old post and Apple has made major improvements to iCloud and I see lots of other applications having had no problems syncing text whatsoever. For instants: MindNode, Notability, GoodReader, iA Writer, Ulysses, 1Password or another number of Apple apps (Pages, Notes, Numbers ). How is it all of this other applications are able to use iCloud sync with multiple files, but yours cannot?

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kewms
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Fri May 08, 2020 11:57 pm Post

The issue is not "multiple files," as such. Rather, it is that the component files of a Scrivener project are all related to each other. So if, for example, you add a file to the project, the master index file used to build the Binder also changes. And if your iOS device gets version A of the Binder, but only version B reflects the new file, the file will appear to be "missing." Panic and support emails will ensue.

None of the examples in your list faces this precise issue. In particular, note that Scrivener is not just "syncing text." A Scrivener project can contain literally any type of file, including files that Scrivener itself cannot open.

In order to minimize the risk of this kind of problem, Scrivener requires much more control over the synchronization process than iCloud (or any other service besides Dropbox) offers. Until that changes, we will be unable to support synchronization via iCloud.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

mb
mbbntu
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Sat May 09, 2020 7:32 am Post

virtualshift wrote:I want to point out that that is an old post and Apple has made major improvements to iCloud and I see lots of other applications having had no problems syncing text whatsoever.

This blog post (https://eclecticlight.co/2020/01/21/testing-icloud-using-cirrus/) by an experienced programmer and tech writer dates from January 2020 and has quite a bit to say about how unreliable iCloud is. Howard Oakley has even written a small utility (called Cirrus, which you can download for free) which can help to "unstick" iCloud when it stalls and fails to synchronise. As I have said elsewhere, if a programmer finds it worth his time to produce such a utility and make it publicly available, this suggests to me that iCloud is not working as it should. Something seems to have gone wrong back in October when Apple was about to roll out some improvements to iCloud and pulled them at the last moment. I have certainly found iCloud to be so slow and unreliable at times that I have moved most of my material to other cloud services. A few months back I was observing cases in which a text file of only a few kilobytes would sit for days without uploading. That was before I discovered Cirrus, which helps, but is not a solution to all problems.

All of that is independent of the fact that Scrivener's project format is quite unlike the "flat" files used by programs like Ulysses, etc. If you want to see just how complex a Scrivener project is, in the Finder right click on the project's icon and choose "show package contents" -- but don't mess with anything inside.
You should judge people not by how close they get to the top, but by how far they have come from the bottom. Some people have a mountain to climb just to get to the place where others start out. (Me, 2010)

de
derick
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Sat May 09, 2020 3:06 pm Post

I’ve been using multiple macs while teaching online this quarter, and began experimenting with iCloud Files as a Dropbox replacement, since I’d just updated iCloud storage for photos and have a lot of excess capacity . Unfortunately there have been a few incidents where syncing didn’t happen for no identifiable reason and I’ve had to quickly copy files to Dropbox (and then go back after class and remove the duplicates....). iCloud is generally usable but I wouldn’t trust it with Scrivener sync at this point.