Looking for a panel with formatting

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kewms
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Wed May 01, 2019 5:09 pm Post

David G. wrote:Understood. And yet, the fact remains that for a professional writing environment, the output, or the compiled form of a Scrivener document MUST, adhere to proper formatting. I don't see a lot of flexibility in anyones requirements to receive a document for professional review. Proposals, scripts, academic submissions, and articles for publication MUST adhere to a properly formatted output.


Well, no. While proposals etc. MUST adhere to specified formats, the recipients of those documents don't care how the formatting was achieved. There is no inherent requirement that Scrivener itself produce those formats. Indeed, many users prefer to compile from Scrivener to plain text, and use Markdown and similar tools to produce their final formatting.

Scrivener has, over the years, absorbed more and more formatting capabilities into itself. Many users -- myself included! -- think that's good. But the success of Scrivener has never been based on its ability to deliver whatever formatting a user might desire. Other tools fill that niche very effectively.

Katherine
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lunk
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Wed May 01, 2019 5:14 pm Post

David G. wrote:Proposals, scripts, academic submissions, and articles for publication MUST adhere to a properly formatted output.

Ahm... that’s actually not true. In the academic world you can basically format things any way you want nowadays, or not at all. The journals handle this, not the authors. And grant applications are often entered in web applications, unformatted.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

Da
David G.
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Wed May 01, 2019 5:37 pm Post

lunk wrote:
David G. wrote:Proposals, scripts, academic submissions, and articles for publication MUST adhere to a properly formatted output.

Ahm... that’s actually not true. In the academic world you can basically format things any way you want nowadays, or not at all. The journals handle this, not the authors. And grant applications are often entered in web applications, unformatted.

It seems here that we are all dancing in small circles. To what end I am not sure, as we are getting farther, and farther away from my original point of a simple formatting panel or pallet. It seems that we are starting to argue opinions here.

The last time I was in school and received a degree was in 2014. When I handed in assignments, they needed to be correctly formatted or they were not accepted.

I have neither submitted a grant nor a script so I can't speak with any authority on that issue. But I am pretty sure that what I have heard from other writers is that a script has to be formatted in a certain way.

When I was working in the proposal and technical writing field, it had to be not only correctly formatted but it had to be in Windows version of Word. I had a Mac version of Word and it was a smarter idea to get a Windows version of Word as they are slightly different. Fortunately the Mac can dual boot so this was a doable work around.

I am not sure from the earlier comments that we are all talking about the same thing. As I just mentioned, in proposal writing, formatting included specific Word formatting - and on Windows.

But, when I say that Scrivener must have the ability to compile in a professional manor, I thought it was already understood that this is in fact what Scrivener will do? With the exception of a proposal as mentioned, a submission to an editor would only have to be in the correct format.

This would be different from being asked to send the file for editing and revisions. I cannot imagine that Scrivener would do very well in that sort of environment as I wouldn't presume that a publishing house also had a copy of scrivener on hand to assist in the editing process. As I am only now working on my first book, it is not something that I can say yet for certain. But, to say that it is a must that Scrivener will be able to compile my finished work in a professionally acceptable manor, is just not worth arguing about.

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lunk
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Wed May 01, 2019 5:53 pm Post

David G. wrote:It seems that we are starting to argue opinions here.

Not really. You made a general claim which was not correct.

As for your wish, the developer has already given a clear answer:

KB wrote:Scrivener's sidebar will never feature a formatting pane - because it would be entirely out of place there.

End of discussion.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

Da
David G.
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Wed May 01, 2019 6:20 pm Post

lunk wrote:
David G. wrote:It seems that we are starting to argue opinions here.

Not really. You made a general claim which was not correct.
Uh no, I did not. You seem to be ignoring what I have said. It would probably help to read what I wrote before saying something like that. Sigh, you're right and I'm wrong? Really?Why make this personal?
lunk wrote:As for your wish, the developer has already given a clear answer:
KB wrote:Scrivener's sidebar will never feature a formatting pane - because it would be entirely out of place there.
I wrote a lengthy response to the developers post which he has yet to respond to. So no, this is not over and out.
lunk wrote:End of discussion.
I am just one man doing his best to humbly state his opinion. I have risked sharing my disability here on a public forum. I have asked for others to consider a different perspective. I am happy for others to succeed. I am also happy, for me to succeed.

Once again, this post was meant for one reason alone, and I think I have done that. If anyone has an opinion related to my OP, please feel free to chime in.

Otherwise, this has become a huge distraction to my day of writing. Wishing everyone the best and, moving on.

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devinganger
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Wed May 01, 2019 8:40 pm Post

David G. wrote:
lunk wrote:As for your wish, the developer has already given a clear answer:
I wrote a lengthy response to the developers post which he has yet to respond to. So no, this is not over and out.


Just because you don't like the answer and give a lengthy response doesn't mean anyone else is obligated to continue the conversation. I don't know about you, but "will never" is pretty definitive-sounding.

There are a lot of awesome, helpful people here on this forum. Instead of trying to prescribe a particular solution to the problem you are experiencing, why don't you re-state the problem in an open-ended way and see if any of the lovely, talented folks who frequent this forum have ideas for you that you may not have thought of?
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Winner "Best in Class", 2018 My First Supervillain Photo Shoot

Da
David G.
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Wed May 01, 2019 9:13 pm Post

devinganger wrote:
David G. wrote:
lunk wrote:As for your wish, the developer has already given a clear answer:
I wrote a lengthy response to the developers post which he has yet to respond to. So no, this is not over and out.

Just because you don't like the answer and give a lengthy response doesn't mean anyone else is obligated to continue the conversation. I don't know about you, but "will never" is pretty definitive-sounding.

There are a lot of awesome, helpful people here on this forum. Instead of trying to prescribe a particular solution to the problem you are experiencing, why don't you re-state the problem in an open-ended way and see if any of the lovely, talented folks who frequent this forum have ideas for you that you may not have thought of?
why don't you re-state the problem in an open-ended way
??? I think I have already stated the problem that I am having as clearly as I could. It is simply how I see a problem. I went from suggesting a right hand panel and moved to including a stand alone palette so, I think I am being pretty open ended here.

I have not demanded that others comply, nor am I holding my breath at this point that the developer has an interest in what I have further explained. I have simply and clearly stated what is, and is not, working for me. I put together a mock-up to better illustrate my idea. You may not agree with the proposed change, or, you may find it of interest. Either way, all I have done was to state what I feel would work better in Scrivener for myself - and possibly for others.

I am sure that there are as you say many nice people here on this forum. In fact, I am one of them. ;-) I mean no ill will to anyone. I am just offering a suggestion. Why offering a suggestion should draw personal comments and criticism is beyond my understanding. If it is of interest, great. If it is not of interest, it can be ignored.

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devinganger
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Thu May 02, 2019 6:22 am Post

David G. wrote:
devinganger wrote:why don't you re-state the problem in an open-ended way

??? I think I have already stated the problem that I am having as clearly as I could. It is simply how I see a problem. I went from suggesting a right hand panel and moved to including a stand alone palette so, I think I am being pretty open ended here.


Okay, what I mean by that (and I'm coming from an IT background here) is that people often state the problem they're having in terms of their expectations for what the solution would be -- when often, if they move away from a particular expectation, they can receive new insights and advice that solve their actual problem, just not in a way they'd expect.

For you, it would be something along the lines of (and this is just an example, please don't think I'm trying to put words in your mouth):

"I'm struggling to control formatting in my Binder documents on a consistent basis. I feel like I have to go to many different menus and dialogs in order to see all the pertinent details of how my text blocks are formatted. Does anybody have some ideas on how I can get that under control?"
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Winner "Best in Class", 2018 My First Supervillain Photo Shoot