iCloud Sync

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lunk
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:49 pm Post

No, real world is what you do with it.
It’s not about what happens when you’ve left. It’s all about what you do before that.

It’s all about giving the Mac time to finish things before closing it down, and to sync the iPad after that.
And vice versa when you get home. Sync the iPad Scrivener immediately, then start the Mac and give it time to download changes.

As long as you remember that there are three computers involved and which need time to communicate, everything works just fine.
So it’s all about patience.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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parf
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:02 pm Post

lunk wrote:No, real world is what you do with it.
It’s not about what happens when you’ve left. It’s all about what you do before that.

It’s all about giving the Mac time to finish things before closing it down, and to sync the iPad after that.
And vice versa when you get home. Sync the iPad Scrivener immediately, then start the Mac and give it time to download changes.

As long as you remember that there are three computers involved and which need time to communicate, everything works just fine.
So it’s all about patience.


Well, I still don't understand why you use the term "slowing down", describing something directly opposite (remember this, do that, and definitely do not forget this), but never mind. The fact remains: when I'm outside the ideal circumstances, the ultimate app dedicated for writing cannot be used for writing, while everything else still does the job.

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lunk
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:08 pm Post

parf wrote:Well, I still don't understand why you use the term "slowing down",
- - -
The fact remains: when I'm outside the ideal circumstances, the ultimate app dedicated for writing cannot be used for writing, while everything else still does the job.

I say "slow down" because you need to give things time. Sync is never an instant process. It always take time. Sometimes more, sometimes less, and it’s the same for all cloud services.

Of course iOS Scrivener can be used for writing. That’s what I use it for, and often on airplanes without access to WiFi. So I don’t understand what’s stopping you.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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parf
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:31 pm Post

lunk wrote:
parf wrote:Well, I still don't understand why you use the term "slowing down",
- - -
The fact remains: when I'm outside the ideal circumstances, the ultimate app dedicated for writing cannot be used for writing, while everything else still does the job.

I say "slow down" because you need to give things time. Sync is never an instant process. It always take time. Sometimes more, sometimes less, and it’s the same for all cloud services.

Of course iOS Scrivener can be used for writing. That’s what I use it for, and often on airplanes without access to WiFi. So I don’t understand what’s stopping you.


I already described several times what's stopping me, and you already mentioned that sometimes you have to use Drafts instead of Scrivener, so I don't understand what you don't understand. When an app needs ideal circumstances to function properly, it means that it is not a fully functional app. It might have been in 2011, but not in 2021. Everything I use now synchronizes without any effort from my part. I don't have to slow down, to speed up, to remember, to quietly sit and wait for 10 minutes trying not to touch the ipad etc. – the apps just sync all by themselves.

Not Scrivener.

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lunk
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:05 pm Post

Yes, simpler apps sync in a simpler fashion, but not instantly. You have just been happy not to have any hickups with those, yet. ;)

Scrivener does not need ”ideal” circumstances. Just some common sense.
You asked for ”good habits” and that’s what I described.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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parf
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:31 pm Post

lunk wrote:Yes, simpler apps sync in a simpler fashion, but not instantly. You have just been happy not to have any hickups with those, yet. ;)

Scrivener does not need ”ideal” circumstances. Just some common sense.
You asked for ”good habits” and that’s what I described.


I am not sure that other apps can be classified as "simpler", and that Scrivener is the most complicated piece of software ever created, but anyway: other synchronized apps do have hiccups from time to time, exactly. Sometimes things are broken and need a fix. Normally (99% of time) they run and synchronise smoothly.

Unlike them, Scrivener synchronization requires man power, "slowing down", "good habits" and other investments of time and effort by design. Everyday. Every time you want to switch the gadget and/or ambience.

And this is a huge problem.

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lunk
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:38 pm Post

parf wrote:And this is a huge problem.

No, it’s reality. :)
Scrivener IS a complicated and very capable software. But it’s up to everyone to decide if they want to use it, and if so if they are prepared to get some ”good habits”.
If the answer is no, don’t use it, or risk losing work. It’s a free choice. :D
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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kewms
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:19 pm Post

parf wrote:kewms:
1) It is on Autoclose. It does not help much, since sometimes it still fails to close, and, more importantly, you have to remember exactly when you used the mac for the last time: was it 55 min ago or 1 hour 03 min ago?
And, even more importantly, closing the Mac version does not force the iPad version to synchronize.
So, a realistic scenario – you are outside, with no internet, you are not sure if Mac app is closed, but you can’t synchronize iPad anyway. Solution? Write somewhere else, and then copy paste.
Not nice.
2) Ipad settings do not do much, since I don’t have a sim card in it. So, it’s always “on the WiFi”.
3) Synch Now button under the Binder does the same as the Projects synch button, that is – blocking all work for some minutes. Also, when I use it, Scrivener often crashes after some minutes of “Downloading file list”, without actually sending anything to the Dropbox.


The sync from the Mac to Dropbox should happen whenever Scrivener autosaves. So the autoclose isn't *necessary,* but is a useful bit of extra insurance. If the autoclose isn't closing, that's a separate issue.

If you fail to synchronize the iPad, then go somewhere without WiFi, I'm not sure how it's Scrivener's fault that the iPad doesn't have the most current version of the project. In this context, "good synchronization habits" would involve being sure to synchronize before you go somewhere that doesn't have WiFi.

If you do find yourself "stuck" with an unsynced iPad, the safest way to manage it is to duplicate the document you want to work on, and then work in the duplicate. Then when you synchronize again, the server version will update the original (if there are changes), but won't overwrite the work you did in the duplicate. Even safer would be to use a completely separate "Inbox" project for remote notes only, but that's probably not practical in all situations.

If Scrivener is crashing without synchronizing, that's a separate issue. In fact, there's a known bug that appears to have been fixed in the most recent iOS update. Have you installed it?

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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parf
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:52 pm Post

kewms wrote:
If you fail to synchronize the iPad, then go somewhere without WiFi, I'm not sure how it's Scrivener's fault that the iPad doesn't have the most current version of the project. In this context, "good synchronization habits" would involve being sure to synchronize before you go somewhere that doesn't have WiFi.



The fact that Scrivener on the iPad cannot synchronize without a human being involved in the process is a huge problem. Yes, it's Scrivener fault, not mine: I didn't design it that way. I cannot even think about an app I used in the last 10-15 years that required "good habits". In 1998 there were plenty of them, indeed. In 2003, maybe. But in 2021? Not synchronizing on the background? Taking 5-10 min each time, with no possibility to use other apps during synchronization? Really?

Scrivener for iPad has to develop "good habits", not the users.

kewms wrote:
If Scrivener is crashing without synchronizing, that's a separate issue. In fact, there's a known bug that appears to have been fixed in the most recent iOS update. Have you installed it?


Yes, the newest update is 4 months old. Still crashing.

Overall I'm following the advice above and do not use Scrivener on the iPad until I absolutely have to, but every time it's a huge disappointment (not only because of synchronisation and crashing, there are other issues, too).

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lunk
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:18 pm Post

parf wrote:Yes, the newest update is 4 months old. Still crashing.

No, the newest update of iPadOS was just a week ago or so. It solved syncing problems for lots of users.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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kewms
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Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:33 pm Post

parf wrote:
kewms wrote:
If you fail to synchronize the iPad, then go somewhere without WiFi, I'm not sure how it's Scrivener's fault that the iPad doesn't have the most current version of the project. In this context, "good synchronization habits" would involve being sure to synchronize before you go somewhere that doesn't have WiFi.



The fact that Scrivener on the iPad cannot synchronize without a human being involved in the process is a huge problem. Yes, it's Scrivener fault, not mine: I didn't design it that way. I cannot even think about an app I used in the last 10-15 years that required "good habits".


I can think of plenty of apps that can't sync without a WiFi connection, though, which is the specific thing you were referring to.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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parf
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Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:40 am Post

kewms wrote:
parf wrote:
kewms wrote:
If you fail to synchronize the iPad, then go somewhere without WiFi, I'm not sure how it's Scrivener's fault that the iPad doesn't have the most current version of the project. In this context, "good synchronization habits" would involve being sure to synchronize before you go somewhere that doesn't have WiFi.



The fact that Scrivener on the iPad cannot synchronize without a human being involved in the process is a huge problem. Yes, it's Scrivener fault, not mine: I didn't design it that way. I cannot even think about an app I used in the last 10-15 years that required "good habits".


I can think of plenty of apps that can't sync without a WiFi connection, though, which is the specific thing you were referring to.

Katherine


“without a human being involved in the process” means on the background, automatically. Plenty of these apps. All of them.

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lunk
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Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:04 am Post

parf wrote:Could you explain what are the good synchronization habits? I still cannot figure it out.
- - -
So, what am I doing wrong and what would be these synchronisation habits to develop in the case when someone has to switch between computers several times a day?

It seems to me that your initial question has been answered, several times.

What is it you still don’t understand?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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parf
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Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:29 am Post

lunk wrote:
parf wrote:Could you explain what are the good synchronization habits? I still cannot figure it out.
- - -
So, what am I doing wrong and what would be these synchronisation habits to develop in the case when someone has to switch between computers several times a day?

It seems to me that your initial question has been answered, several times.

What is it you still don’t understand?


Well, I still don't understand how someone dares to blame users for bad design decisions. Like a bad cook blames visitors for not having taste buds developed enough.

Stockholm syndrome is hard to understand, too.

And yes, the last Scrivener update in my App Store is still 4 months old.

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lunk
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Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:00 am Post

parf wrote:Well, I still don't understand how someone dares to blame users for bad design decisions.
- - -
And yes, the last Scrivener update in my App Store is still 4 months old.

Users are not "blamed" for anything. When someone who doesn't understand something asks a question there are always willing fellow users ready to answer. And if someone says "I don't like Scrivener" the most common reaction is "good luck with using something else". If you don't like Scrivener, don't use it. It's as simple as that.

Catherine (and I) referred to iPadOS update, not Scrivener. Have you updated to the latest iPadOS update, which was released a week ago or so?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS