macOS Sierra

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ptram
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Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:12 pm Post

Since I'll be stuck with Yosemite nearly forever, I hope Scrivener will be backward-compatible for a very long time..,

Paolo

Je
JennK
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:46 pm Post

I recommend thinking twice--maybe even three or four times--before enabling the new iCloud Drive Desktop and Documents "feature." And if you decide to go ahead, be sure to check all your Scrivener backup and file settings the next time you open the app. I had Scrivener set up to save to Dropbox and back up to my local hard drive. When I enabled Desktop and Documents, Scrivener could no longer locate the backup folder because Apple, in its infinite state of "who cares if what we're doing completely defies logic and what users will expect," completely MOVES the Documents folder instead of just linking to it and allowing you to keep it wherever the hell you want.

Also, if you decide you no longer want to use the Desktop and Documents feature, you're in for a whole other ring of hell. Your Documents folder no longer exists as far as you can see, but the OS won't let you simply create a new one because it's really there in some inner sanctum that Apple doesn't want you to touch. When you disable D&D, it erases any files you had in your Documents folder on your local drive and only retains what you had in iCloud Drive, which is the opposite of what you probably wanted. And yet, it's something that's quite likely to happen because if your Documents folder exceeds the size of your iCloud Drive, and you decide you don't want to pay Apple for storage of something that was perfectly fine where it was in the first place(!!!), only the files that got copied over to the iCloud Drive before you ran out of storage will be retained when you disable this mess. If you didn't know all this in advance and plan accordingly, you'll then be stuck doing the dance of the seven veils through your Time Machine backups to find the missing files and move files from the iCloud Drive folder to the "new"-yet-empty Documents folder on your local drive.

Are we having fun yet?

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kewms
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Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:55 am Post

:shock:

Someone asked "how many ways can we $#@% the user with a single feature?"

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

Je
JennK
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Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:32 pm Post

It must be. There's no way they could screw something like this up quite so much without intent. :P

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devinganger
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:22 am Post

Hanlon's Razor seems appropriate here.
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Silverdragon
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Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:22 pm Post

:shock: Note to self: make a copy of the Documents folder (with a different name) before downloading Sierra.

What a crock. I cannot express how much I loathe iCloud. Thank you, Lit&Lat, for using Dropbox with the iOS app. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
So you know where I'm coming from:
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rdale
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Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:04 pm Post

Silverdragon wrote: Note to self: make a copy of the Documents folder (with a different name) before downloading Sierra.

If you've got a Time Machine backup, you shouldn't have to worry; at worst you can just restore the entire Documents folder from that. Also, it's fairly easy to avoid turning that feature on during the upgrade. Apple didn't try to trick me into using some vaguely described "space saving" feature or anything.
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SR
SRK
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:10 am Post

JennK wrote:I recommend thinking twice--maybe even three or four times--before enabling the new iCloud Drive Desktop and Documents "feature." And if you decide to go ahead, be sure to check all your Scrivener backup and file settings the next time you open the app. I had Scrivener set up to save to Dropbox and back up to my local hard drive. When I enabled Desktop and Documents, Scrivener could no longer locate the backup folder because Apple, in its infinite state of "who cares if what we're doing completely defies logic and what users will expect," completely MOVES the Documents folder instead of just linking to it and allowing you to keep it wherever the hell you want.

Also, if you decide you no longer want to use the Desktop and Documents feature, you're in for a whole other ring of hell. Your Documents folder no longer exists as far as you can see, but the OS won't let you simply create a new one because it's really there in some inner sanctum that Apple doesn't want you to touch. When you disable D&D, it erases any files you had in your Documents folder on your local drive and only retains what you had in iCloud Drive, which is the opposite of what you probably wanted. And yet, it's something that's quite likely to happen because if your Documents folder exceeds the size of your iCloud Drive, and you decide you don't want to pay Apple for storage of something that was perfectly fine where it was in the first place(!!!), only the files that got copied over to the iCloud Drive before you ran out of storage will be retained when you disable this mess. If you didn't know all this in advance and plan accordingly, you'll then be stuck doing the dance of the seven veils through your Time Machine backups to find the missing files and move files from the iCloud Drive folder to the "new"-yet-empty Documents folder on your local drive.

Are we having fun yet?


This is tremendously helpful information and thank you for passing it on to all of us. And expressed so clearly. Sounds like knowledge learned through personal experience, and for that you have my sympathies. But you've saved many of us a lot of heartache and lost data.

Je
JennK
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Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:12 am Post

I'm glad the info was of help! Through some poking around, I found out that my issue from the Scrivener end of things was due to the fact that Apple hadn't counted on those of us who use multiple computers actually setting up the Desktop & Documents feature on all those computers (even though the entire premise of this feature is being able to access all of your desktop and documents files from any of your computers). If you enable this feature on multiple computers, it decides one of those computers is the primary and renames your Desktop and Documents folders on the other computer(s) and saves those as sub-folders within the primary folder, renaming them to reflect the name of the computer from which they were taken. Which then confuses Scrivener because, of course, the folder no longer has the same name. So just to be clear, this is most definitely an Apple issue and not a Scrivener one.

SR
SRK
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Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:58 am Post

Interesting article written by a Scrivener user who would have lost all of his documents, including those in Dropbox, but for having backups. Useful read, especially about the default switch on of the iCloud Drive and Optimize Mac Storage features in Sierra:

9 to 5 Mac Opinion: Correction, Sierra’s storage management tools are a complete disaster

https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/27/opinion- ... nightmare/

su
suavito
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Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:16 pm Post

For everyone who was aware of what quite likely would happen when Documents In The Cloud get activated—though maybe not to the actual extent—and therefore did not tick the little box of death from the start, Apple added some extra and not-so-easy to evade hassles.

For example, the font-aliasing problem that makes the majority of the smaller system fonts difficult to read on non-retina displays, first introduced with Yosemite and fixed in El Capitan, made a celebrated return in Sierra.

Also not good, but rather not Apple's fault I guess, is that LibreOffice does not run under Sierra at all. So Scrivener users relying on the Open Document Text as an output format should think twice about switching to Sierra at the present state of things.
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I wrote this book in less than two hours. I think I’ve made as much of it as one could in such a short time.

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su
suavito
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Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:50 pm Post

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put it, but anyway:

By no means do install the 10.12.2 Beta 16C32F!

Apple did change something with PDF display again and this time it is really horrendous. DEVONthink Pro Office immediately crashes every time when you select a PDF in the item list. Scrivener takes its time, but it does inevitably crash too. So does PDF Expert.

So be smarter than me.
Author’s Preface

I wrote this book in less than two hours. I think I’ve made as much of it as one could in such a short time.

Eugen Egner, Androids from Milk

SR
SRK
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Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:35 am Post

suavito wrote:For everyone who was aware of what quite likely would happen when Documents In The Cloud get activated—though maybe not to the actual extent—and therefore did not tick the little box of death from the start, Apple added some extra and not-so-easy to evade hassles.

For example, the font-aliasing problem that makes the majority of the smaller system fonts difficult to read on non-retina displays, first introduced with Yosemite and fixed in El Capitan, made a celebrated return in Sierra.

Also not good, but rather not Apple's fault I guess, is that LibreOffice does not run under Sierra at all. So Scrivener users relying on the Open Document Text as an output format should think twice about switching to Sierra at the present state of things.


This is very helpful information. Thank you.

One note in the "little box of death" is that I would recommend reading the 9to5mac.com article I gave a link to above.

The "gotcha" discussed in that article is that even if you know enough to not activate the feature when updating to Sierra (depending on how you have your documents and Dropbox setup, or preference to use another cloud service for your files), once you have moved to Sierra, when you then update to a newer version of the OS, Sierra will automatically activate the feature for you without informing you that it has done this. As described in the article, this led a very knowledgeable Mac user who writes about its OS for a living to get caught out and have his MacBook Air "bricked" and all his Dropbox files deleted on all his Macs.

Would also recommend reading discussions of other Sierra issues before deciding to update from El Capitan, especially with respect to its handling of PDFs, which, as you've shared with us, seems to be a continuing problem. For anyone who relies on PDFs for their research materials, the problems Sierra is causing with being able to view and work with existing PDFs is a big issue.

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xiamenese
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Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:51 am Post

I have to say, I updated my MBP to 10.12 before this thread started and I presume I set it not to use Documents in the Cloud—as you can do things like that later, I generally don't do it immediately—but, for various reasons I didn't boot it up until 10.12.1 came out. But when I upgraded, once again, I was asked if I wanted to use Documents in the Cloud, and said "No", so I haven't been caught by that problem.

But thanks all the same for this thread. I won't upgrade my other machines until the PDF and other bugs are sorted out, but even then, I won't be using Documents in the Cloud.

I don't put all my files in my documents folder anyway, many of them are in the Dropbox folder or Cubby folders which are outside the documents folder, and they will stay outside the documents folder.
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SR
SRK
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Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:08 am Post

FYI, For those where PDFs are an important part of the research workflow, the latest Devonthink release (2.9.7 version largely focused since 2.9.2 on fixing known issues created by OSX 10.12 because of the revised (described by some as broken) Apple PDFKit) here are the items listed that still have not been able to been fixed:

Known issues still present with version 2.9.7(copied from the manual):

- "The PDF sidebar doesn't support reordering pages with drag-and-drop due to PDFKit bugs.
- Flickering while resizing or moving PDF annotations, again due to PDFKit bugs.
- Encrypted PDF documents can't be unlocked; guess it: PDFKit bugs.
- Note PDF annotations can't be opened or expanded. No kidding, it's PDFKit."

Here is the link to the information:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/DTWebsiteSuppo ... .pdf#page8

Worth also noting is the number of fixes and workarounds that have been required to get a PDF Workflow back to a semi-functioning state since the OS 10.12 update.