Live Preview and Print-Scaling bug

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kithairon
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Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:18 am Post

As reported in this thread here http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=49713 the live preview and print-scaling functionality is not working in 1.3 and 1.3.1 on El Cap,, Sierra and HighSierra. I'm posting this in the bug-thread for the record – and obviously hoping that this can be fixed in the near future. Have since rolled back to 1.2 where print-preview and -scaling still work – but miss the new features of 1.3,1, especially the labels and the nifty formatting options. Thanks for looking into this.

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AmberV
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Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:06 pm Post

Sorry, I thought I updated that thread but it looks like I didn't. Unfortunately scaling will have to be entirely removed in a future update. Since Apple changed how this feature works, it no longer works with the type of layout we're using and it would require quite a lot of work to restore the capability.
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Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:08 pm Post

Unfortunately scaling will have to be entirely removed in a future update. Since Apple changed how this feature works, it no longer works with the type of layout we're using and it would require quite a lot of work to restore the capability.

This is most unfortunate; the scaling function is crucial to my workflow. Any idea how long it will be possible to use my current work-around – to scapple in the latest version and send the finished document to the printer with v1.2 (installed as a parallel app) that luckily still offers this functionality, even on documents created in 1.3.1?

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AmberV
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Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:59 pm Post

We’ll be taking another look at it for sure, but it will probably require changing a lot of how things are done behind the scenes. The current reaction is more of a bandaid in that it doesn’t really serve anyone to have a thing that doesn’t do anything.

As for why 1.2 still works, there were other issues with how it calculated page sizes that necessitated the underlying adjustments. You might just be lucky in that you haven’t run into them. It definitely needed fixing, and we can’t go back to how it was.

I would say your workaround should be safe for a good long while yet. 1.2 was 64-bit, which is going to be the main concern going forward. Who’s to say what Apple will change though that might render it difficult to use in the coming years. We can’t really speculate on that—hopefully we have a fix for the main problem before that happens.

Sorry again!
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Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:11 am Post

Thanks for your response, explanation and moderately reassuring assessment about my work-around. Let's keep fingers crossed for a fix that enables the feature again in its past glory. Many of the people I've infected with my enthusiasm for Scapple use the app to create hand-outs for students – and use the feature as I do: negotiating between best legibility and squeezing as much on a page as possible.

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Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:25 pm Post

I know it may not be as drop-dead simple depending on what you use it for, but have you tried using the page guide feature to ensure that the content you are working with fills a page and doesn't go over it? If you're basically using Scapple to design papers, it would seem to me that would be the most straight-forward approach. You don't need to scale if the content fits the page perfectly.
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:06 pm Post

Thanks for the hint. Unfortunately, using page guides has never worked for me. The guides simply don't indicate reliably the printing area; in fact they are way off, always allowing for more to go an a page than actually does. After a number of trials, change of printer-drivers, out-put format etc. I've given up trying to make use of them since playing with the percentages and using the live-preview was much more reliable. (It would be great if they worked as you suggest,)

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Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:45 pm Post

Is this in reference to 1.2? There were some issues with page guides—that in fact part of what needed to be fixed, that I referred to above. It should be pretty accurate in 1.3. Perhaps we have very different print settings though. Me, just using regular A4 with the scale set to 100% (I did indeed get some weird results with that modified, so check that) I can fit things without much hassle.
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Ioa Petra'ka
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Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:49 pm Post

Without intending to derail this thread for the issue with Print-Scaling and Live Preview: Page Guides in 1.3.1 are not working for me either. If you have a look at the images below you may see what I mean:

https://i.imgur.com/C2wlkFU.jpg

and here:
https://i.imgur.com/dXUenJz.jpg?1

The background of the first screenshot shows the storyboard with the page guides; the foreground the print-preview the difference should be obivious; (the second image shows pages 3 and 4) which, according to the page guides, would not even be needed since everything apparently fits onto the first page. The printer's actual output is quite close to what the Preview in the Print-Dialogue shows – and at quite at some distance from what the page guides seem to indicate.

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AmberV
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Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:50 pm Post

It’s quite all right, as I think if we can get this working it rather indirectly resolves the problem outlined in this thread. Technically maybe not, but in a human sense: being able to create handouts with Scapple without a bunch of back and forth trial and error.

Unless your print driver works differently from mine, it looks like you might have changed the paper orientation right there in the print preview, rather than changing that setting into the document itself. For me, the settings made in the print preview panel don’t adjust the saved print settings in the same fashion that the File ▸ Page Setup... dialogue does. With that, if I swap to landscape printing as you’re doing, the page guides update to reflect that and I get an accurate estimation of where notes will be fall within the printable area of the page:

Image
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Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:32 pm Post

You're absolutely right – thanks for the helpful observation (re differing effects depending on where from the change of orientation is initiated) and your screenshot. Tried your suggestion to change page orientation via File>PageSetup>Orientation rather than the Print Preview window – and immediately the page guides are accurate (even conservative) indications of what both of my printers can physically output. While the backend side of the issue remains, this totally solves my user issue – thanks! Back with 1.3.1...

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Thu May 24, 2018 10:31 am Post

Hi! Adding my two cents here to say that Kithairon is not alone here. I used to use Scapple 1.2 on an older Mac OS (Snow Leopard actually), and I too relied on the scaling feature in the Print Dialog to fine-tune my layouts so my scapples would fit neatly onto multiple pages. Now I'm using 1.3 on Sierra (OSX10.12), and of course finding that scaling no longer works.

But I'm afraid the page guides aren't working for me either. Eg, I've just created a test scapple consisting of one large background shape apparently inside the page guides (with a small margin to boot). However Print Preview says it will take 4 pages, and shows both right hand and bottom borders spilling over onto additional pages. FWIW, I set up both page size (A4) and orientation using the Document Page Setup dialog as suggested. Perhaps a problem with the guides not matching the actual printable area of an A4 sheet? I guess I could try creating a background shape to mark the true printable area inside the page guides and work inside that....

Anyway just wanted to say: REALLY hoping that some run-round (or future update) will be able to fix this, because being able to print out scapples is crucial for those of us who still like to shuffle paper :) Honestly, if there were any way to bring back the scaling feature, that would be the BEST, because it effectively enables one to scale fonts, optimising the use of A4 real estate. Sounds finicky, but not being confined to standard font sizes can make all the difference in the world if you're trying to fit a set of stacked text boxes on a page while keeping them just about legible!

Actually my fantasy would be a kind of Image Compile Mode that would temporarily treat the entire scapple as a scalable image for the purposes of exporting to the printer. I'm sure it's not as easy as it sounds(!), but it feels so intuitive: to just grab a section of scapple and make it fit the page (or whatever size you want it to be). I'm picturing a kind of adjustable crop-mask, under which one could move and zoom the scapple — and if necessary tweak the scapple contents themselves — until the page looked good. Then...hit the Magic Crop Button to create a high-resolution image exactly the size you want and send it to the printer. That's the fantasy anyway: just putting it there on the off chance that it's technically doable — I know you guys must get scores of cute-sounding suggestions from ignoramuses like me that are total non-starters! And I know you have a ton of other things on your plate. But if and when you do have time, if there were some way to enhance the interchange between what you see on screen and what you fit onto a piece of paper, that would make Scapple a truly awesome tool.

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AmberV
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Thu May 24, 2018 11:38 am Post

One of the things we checked earlier was whether any scaling was using in the Page Setup dialogue. In my testing that feature works a bit oddly, it is best to leave it at 100%. I do get a very small, maybe 7 pixel or so space at the very bottom of an A4 sheet that seems to cause pagination if I size the background shape into it, but nothing on the left or right, those look spot on. Your experience seems to be outside of what I'm seeing though.

As for page composition, this is the sort of thing I would delegate to an illustration/image editing program. Export a PDF from Scapple, drop it into Illustrator and there you have everything you could possibly need to create precise layouts. Overall though that does sound like an awful lot of work to me, especially consider that it’s not really Scapple’s core design purpose to make printouts. It’s really cool that people are finding uses for it that way, don’t get me wrong, but it’s mainly meant to be a scratch board for getting your thoughts down digitally. It lacks quite a lot in the realm of presentation, I would say, and heading in that direction would change the character of its core code.
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Thu May 24, 2018 12:24 pm Post

AmberV wrote:As for page composition, this is the sort of thing I would delegate to an illustration/image editing program. Export a PDF from Scapple, drop it into Illustrator and there you have everything you could possibly need to create precise layouts. Overall though that does sound like an awful lot of work to me, especially consider that it’s not really Scapple’s core design purpose to make printouts. It’s really cool that people are finding uses for it that way, don’t get me wrong, but it’s mainly meant to be a scratch board for getting your thoughts down digitally. It lacks quite a lot in the realm of presentation, I would say, and heading in that direction would change the character of its core code.


Point taken. This is where pig-ignorance (mine) comes in — if it's a bred-in-the-bone difference of functionality, it clearly makes no sense for you guys to hare after it. FWIW, my interest here isn't public presentation (I differ from Kithairon in this), but just translating screen to paper for my own convenience and pleasure. Possibly an age thing: I belong to the generation that will always have one foot in the 20C world of pen and paper! And the visual aspect of notes is important to me (I was always that kid with the tiny, orderly, calligraphic lecture notes...). Scapple tempted away from pen and paper because I love how tidy and colourful it makes my notes — it's an aesthetic thing, but also helps me conceptualise. But precisely because it's just for my own use, it makes no sense to go to a lot of trouble exporting and formatting a publishable version. I don't own Illustrator anyway — probably just as well so I'm not tempted down that rabbit hole! (*grin*). Hence my silly little fantasy of a grab-and-go functionality.

Maybe I should see how far I can get with screen shots....

As for my page guides issue, I guess it's just a mystery. I do have everything set up normally in Page Setup — A4 paper in portrait orientation with 100% scaling — but it's still insisting on about 8% margin inside the page guides (roughly estimated by measuring the screen with a ruler). Go figure.

ETA
One additional datum point: it seems to only be an issue with the long sides of the page. That is: in portrait mode, objects get cropped/bumped to the next page when they are to near the side page guides (top/bottom guides are accurate); but in landscape mode the problem is instead with objects near the top and bottom guides.

EATA
Screenshot run-round surprisingly viable. Will need to play around a little to identify an A4-proportioned area on my screen, but printing the screenshot out of Preview was pretty straightforward and the resolution isn't bad. So mark this issue sorted, in a kludgey sort of a way. Thanks for taking the time to discuss it — without which I probably wouldn't have thought of switching to an image-based solution!

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Thu May 24, 2018 1:17 pm Post

Although I tend towards a paperless universe (I don’t even own a printer any more), I certainly do understand the compulsion. :)

The nice thing about exporting as PDF is that it is a scalable result. Whether you use Illustrator or Preview or maybe something like Scribus (free, but I think it might need conversion from PDF), you can adjust the size of the elements without losing quality.

One additional datum point: it seems to only be an issue with the long sides of the page. That is: in portrait mode, objects get cropped/bumped to the next page when they are to near the side page guides (top/bottom guides are accurate); but in landscape mode the problem is instead with objects near the top and bottom guides.


Yeah, that’s what I see as well, though for me the “no go zone” is quite a bit less than 8%, I’m seeing something that is just about 1%.

ImagePage height: 770pts tall; box height: 760pts

We could be seeing differences in print drivers and how they mark unprintable areas, perhaps. The preview area should take that into account (as you’ll note, even though the horizontal width is filled, there is still an area of whitespace around the background image when printing).
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Ioa Petra'ka
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