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Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:51 am
by xiamenese
KB wrote:
xiamenese wrote:On the other hand, I'm glad I didn't start the year before I did ... there was a guy in that year who insisted on sitting in on our lectures on the Development of Linguistics and showing off his "superior" knowledge. I would have hated having to do my whole course in his company!


A-ha, but are you glad you didn't have to be on a course with him, or that you didn't turn into him? :)

And (sorry, I just can't stop myself now) trust me, you don't want to get into a debate about grammar with our Jennifer, who, along with the redoubtable xiamenese, started this whole thing. :)

Redoubtable or not — and I would hope not! — I didn't turn into him! :)

Mark

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm
by pigfender
I'm sorry, Mr Fender, but you are going to have to accept the final word of R.L. Trask on this one


I'm afraid I simply don't hold other people's opinions in the same high regard that I do my own.
:D

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:18 pm
by KB
Heh heh, fair enough, me neither. :)

This is the problem with developing software for writers, of course - you ask for some volunteer proof-readers, and instead of a list of factual errors or typos, you get pages of discussion the placement of a comma and the merits (or heinousness) of starting sentences with conjunctives. Or maybe that's the *joy* of developing software for writers. :)

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:05 pm
by robertdguthrie
KB wrote:Heh, the whole thing is moot anyway, as I've completely rewritten the whole "What is Scapple?" section. :)

Dammit. I came late to the discussion, and now I can't argue with you on how "planning stages" are being modified by "early" and thus should not have a comma between. *grump*

:roll:

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:08 pm
by KB
robertdguthrie wrote:
KB wrote:Heh, the whole thing is moot anyway, as I've completely rewritten the whole "What is Scapple?" section. :)

Dammit. I came late to the discussion, and now I can't argue with you on how "planning stages" are being modified by "early" and thus should not have a comma between. *grump*

:roll:


That's good, because you would have been wrong, since it was "stages" being modified, not "planning stages"--as so beautifully demonstrated by brookter. :D

(I know, you were being ironic, but I don't do irony. :) )

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:16 pm
by robertdguthrie
KB wrote:
robertdguthrie wrote:
KB wrote:Heh, the whole thing is moot anyway, as I've completely rewritten the whole "What is Scapple?" section. :)

Dammit. I came late to the discussion, and now I can't argue with you on how "planning stages" are being modified by "early" and thus should not have a comma between. *grump*

:roll:


That's good, because you would have been wrong, since it was "stages" being modified, not "planning stages"--as so beautifully demonstrated by brookter. :D

(I know, you were being ironic, but I don't do irony. :) )

Me neither; I just let my clothes hang in the bathroom while I shower. But I thought we were talking grammar. You British and your weird non sequiturs.

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:35 pm
by Juddbert
Oh...so you've got the sequiturs Robert. Hand 'em over please, I need to prune back the hedge. :wink:

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:42 pm
by robertdguthrie
From the previous discussion, I'm not sure if you want to be more formal in the manual. If you do, then this sentence needs to be completed:
On page 5, Keith wrote:The main advantages of doing this in Scapple, instead of on paper or on a whiteboard, are:


I've never been terribly fond of this rule. Awards ceremonies break this rule all the time:
"And the nominees for best dog are:"

I haven't read Trask, so I'll leave it to those of you who have a copy on hand to decide if I'm the uneducated git that I appear to be, but I'm pretty sure that most grammar caretakers agree that a complete sentence must precede a colon.

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:20 am
by nom
robertdguthrie wrote:From the previous discussion, I'm not sure if you want to be more formal in the manual. If you do, then this sentence needs to be completed:
On page 5, Keith wrote:The main advantages of doing this in Scapple, instead of on paper or on a whiteboard, are:


I've never been terribly fond of this rule. Awards ceremonies break this rule all the time:
"And the nominees for best dog are:"

I haven't read Trask, so I'll leave it to those of you who have a copy on hand to decide if I'm the uneducated git that I appear to be, but I'm pretty sure that most grammar caretakers agree that a complete sentence must precede a colon.


I don't have Trask (I don't even know what a "Trask" is :oops:) but I just checked 3 different style guides here and found 3 different "rules". The first, the formal style (APA) for my academic discipline, explicitly stated "do not use a colon after an introduction that is not an independent clause or complete sentence" (Publication Manual of the American Psychological Associate, 2012, p. 90). The second, a tear out style cheat sheet that I found in some cheap writing book (credible source) makes no mention of the need for a complete clause. The third source, the LIttle Book of Style (a style guide for Australian grammar published by the Australian government, so definitely ridgey didge) also does not mention a requirement for a complete sentence to precede the colon and specifically does provide a list example where the introductory clause is not a complete sentence.

Maybe this is a US vs English thing? Maybe it's a plot by the government to keep us gullible and stupid? Maybe it's just that we Aussies can't write with proper good grammar and all, you know?

FWIW, I love the way sequiturs glisten in the stage lights. :)

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:40 am
by vic-k
nom wrote:FWIW, I love the way sequiturs glisten in the stage lights.
Best bit is when they all fall off the dress, and Belinda Balloons is stood there starkers!!!

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:34 pm
by pigfender
"And the winner of Best Dog is... Nom!"
"There were two nominees for Best Picture: Big Momma's House and Justice Personified 2 - Never Say Never."
"The are three types of people in the world: Those that can do maths and those that can't."

I see the validity of the point being made about use of complete sentences before a colon. However, it certainly seems to be accepted practice to use a colon before a bulleted list.

Pigfender is:
    - young
    - handsome
    - talented
    - delusional

I'd guess this is because ellipsis is seen as too casual for formal business writing (where such bulleted lists are de rigueur(*), darling). Also, the colon has so many other uses that it's bound to get a little perverted.

DAVE: Did he say "Perverted"?
JOHN: Yeah! <sniggers>

(* - not to be confused with "de rigor", an entirely different and much more serious condition)

As an aside, make sure you're not accidentally in "Google Images" instead of "Google" when doing an interwebs search for "improper colon".
:shock:

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:27 pm
by Juddbert
pigfender wrote:...
As an aside, make sure you're not accidentally in "Google Images" instead of "Google" when doing an interwebs search for "improper colon".
:shock:

I see...what...you mean. :roll:

Re: Scapple User Guide - Proof-Readers Welcome!

Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:42 pm
by nom
pigfender wrote:"And the winner of Best Dog is... Nom!"


I'd just like to my parents, the academy, my humans who support me in all I do (except my barking at the back gate, they always bring me inside and I still don't know why: it obviously works as we've never been invaded when I've been on guard) and, of course, my fans (both of them - the ceiling fan in the office and the floor fan in the bedroom).