Scapple Beta - New Users Please Read

Ah
Ahab
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Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:05 pm Post

Pardon my elderly ignorance here, but is Scrapple what was called, in olden days, The Board?

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xiamenese
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Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:16 pm Post

The Board --> Vellum --> Scrapple

You got it!

Mark
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AmberV
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Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:17 pm Post

And then Scrapple -> Scapple! :wink:

(Actually, there never was a Scrapple)
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
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xiamenese
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Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:11 pm Post

AmberV wrote:And then Scrapple -> Scapple! :wink:

(Actually, there never was a Scrapple)

oops :oops:

Mark
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
rMBP 13" (early 2015) 10.14.5, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSID
2017 iPad, iOS 12.3.1, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

mj
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Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:18 am Post

tchen04 wrote:One question: Will we lose our Scapple documents created using this beta version once the final retail version is out? Can't wait!


Surely not. Still...scary to think about losing the ability to see my scapples.

I'd prefer that I could get a license immediately, even as the program stands in Beta. There are a thousand features I would love to request, but even so... Just as it stands, Scapple is the only program that can capture my thoughts as fast as they come out without me having to worry about organization but still being able to easily connect items.

Just the ability to capture those periodic moments of inspiration where all the ideas come at once and its either write them down or lose them forever, makes this program worth $10.

We are within weeks of the December deadline that the program nags me with every time I start it up - can we start talking about extending the deadline, or selling me a copy? Seriously, how can I go ahead and buy this so I don't have to worry about interruption in service at the end of the month?

Polish it all you want later, for now, sell this as fastest brain pour/capture tool and think you will find a receptive market. Sure, down the road - more color options, refined aesthetics, and higher lever organizational capacities, so much the better, but it a very useful tool as it stands.

Now let me buy it.

Please.

kj
kjanderson41
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Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:12 am Post

Not to ruffle feathers, but why does this meager function deserve its own independent release as a standalone program? Why is this not a part of Scrivener?

Scrivener users are already paying for what, outside of the indie software world, would amount to minor patches released for free. Now another utility which clearly falls under the umbrella of the main cash cow is being divvied off? So we'll be paying for Scrivener 3 as well as for Scapple?

I'm not saying this is a blatant cash grab, but I am questioning the reasoning behind making this a separate program. Is there any reasonable explanation?

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KB
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Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:15 pm Post

kjanderson41 wrote:Not to ruffle feathers, but why does this meager function deserve its own independent release as a standalone program? Why is this not a part of Scrivener?

Scrivener users are already paying for what, outside of the indie software world, would amount to minor patches released for free. Now another utility which clearly falls under the umbrella of the main cash cow is being divvied off? So we'll be paying for Scrivener 3 as well as for Scapple?

I'm not saying this is a blatant cash grab, but I am questioning the reasoning behind making this a separate program. Is there any reasonable explanation?


Are you serious? Or is this just a prank? I don't think you can be serious. For instance, this comment in itself is laughable:

Scrivener users are already paying for what, outside of the indie software world, would amount to minor patches released for free.


That has to be a joke. Scrivener 1.x was released in January 2007 and had free updates right up to November 2010. Scrivener 2.x has now seen 2 years of free updates. Here are the free updates users of 2.x have received so far:

http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivChangeList.php

And all the free updates Scrivener 1.x received:

http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivChangeList1x.php

Moreover, unlike Apple programs - for which you have to pay again in full - our paid updates are heavily discounted. Scrivener 3.x hasn't even begun development yet, so Scrivener 2.x will see at least another year of free updates.

My guess is that you never used Scrivener 1.x, because to call Scrivener 2.x a "minor patch" shows complete ignorance of what actually changed between versions. Scrivener 2.x was a radical redesign with many parts of the interface rebuilt from the ground up.

As for why Scapple isn't part of Scrivener - uh, maybe because it doesn't belong there? Do you write to Microsoft and ask them why you have to pay separately for Excel and Word? To Apple for why you don't get iPhoto free with Aperture? To Omni Group to ask why you don't get OmniGraffle free with OmniOutliner? No? Thought not. And what about Adobe? Presumably you complain to them, too, about how you have to pay so much for what are really just "minor patches" between their various CS releases? (And wait - they aren't even "indie software"...) Mind-mapping software doesn't fit into Scrivener; it most certainly does not fall under the umbrella of our "main cash cow", so this is separate. There would be no way to integrate Scapple into Scrivener; it would have to exist in an independent window separate from the rest of the app, which would have no advantage over having it in a separate app. ( http://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog/?p=104 )

If you don't want to buy it, don't - no one is forcing you to. If Scrivener isn't worth $45 to you, then don't buy that either.

Is there any reasonable explanation?


I guess the "reasonable explanation" can only be that some people feel entitled to get everything for free and don't understand just how much work goes into software development.

Seriously, a "blatant cash grab" when talking about a $10 app created by the developers of a $45 app that gets three-year free updates with many significant additions. :roll:

No feathers ruffled, though - just a huge sigh released.
"You can't waltz in here, use my toaster, and start spouting universal truths without qualification."

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shorn
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Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:13 pm Post

With you on this 100%, Keith.

It is interesting that virtually all of the almost unanimously positive reviews and reactions to Scrivener remark on the amazing number of things that you can do with the program's various built-in features, but also that the features are well-integrated into the whole.

And how cheap it is for what you get. I fear the app store is creating an illusion that all independent programs should cost no more than $4.99.

Been on board since Scrivener Gold, and I second your sigh.

--Simon
Image

mc
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Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:20 pm Post

I downloaded Scapple today and gave it a try. It worked very well for my needs.

A couple of suggestions that I have:

1 - auto re-arrange the notes for me.
I discovered that after spending some time creating and connecting several notes that I was quickly out of space and had to do a lot of dragging around to get things organized. I'd like to have an option to let the software un-overlap nodes for me. I suspect given the nature of the multiple connectedness with Scapple that this would be difficult...so on to #2

2 - allow me to export with the node and edge data.
The current exports only export the notes. I'd like to have an export that gives each note an id, then includes a list of connections. This would give me all of the data, then I could do some interesting things with it.

Great piece of software by the way - I have encountered no bugs in my use of it today with real-life data.

Thanks!
William

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KB
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Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:50 am Post

Hi William,

Thanks for the feedback! Regarding number 1, how are you running out of space? The canvas is infinite. Whenever you move or add a note at the edge of the board, the board should automatically expand to allow room for more notes.

All the best,
Keith
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mc
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Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:18 pm Post

KB wrote:Hi William,

Thanks for the feedback! Regarding number 1, how are you running out of space? The canvas is infinite. Whenever you move or add a note at the edge of the board, the board should automatically expand to allow room for more notes.

All the best,
Keith


I'm putting items to close together at the beginning - or it turns out that they are too close together when I end up adding more and more to my "cloud".

Here's an example - it's a portion of a map of the courses that I need to take:
Image
The notes in yellow are electives. I'd like to go back and expand them by adding the name of the courses, for example, I'd like to change the box that says "COSC440" to say "COSC 440 – Formal Foundations of Software Engineering". When I do that, it will be impossible to keep they layout looking clean and readable without re-arranging the notes.

Does that help clarify?
Last edited by mckeehan on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Un
UnusualSuspect
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:01 am Post

I really like Scapple and do intend to buy it when the final version is available. However, an unexpected problem has popped up. It's no longer possible to format with bold or italics. The problem started with a new board. The original one still accepted the changes, but has now baulked. Doesn't matter whether I use a key combo or the menu. (Snow Leopard, by the way.)

Note: Figured out how to beat it, but still don't know why it happened. I changed the default font from Helvetica to Arial, which is my usual default, and no more problem. But why Helvetica suddenly wouldn't shift to bold or italic? [Shoulder shrug.]

Other than that, my only wish is for autosave.

It would be lovely if it could be made a part of Scrivener, but to call it some kind of ripoff, or suggest that the change from the first version of Scrivener was a matter of a few tweaks is ridiculous. I've been using Scrivener since version 1. and the difference is like night and day.

Keep up the good work.

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AmberV
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:30 am Post

I'm not sure why Helvetica would stop letting your use italics and bold, that is strange. Have you tried Helvetica Neue? That would at least be better than that atrocity called Arial. :)

Autosave is automatically done by the operating system if you are on 10.7+ (same way it works in TextEdit and Preview).

It would be lovely if it could be made a part of Scrivener...


What would it be doing there, though? Notes do not necessarily map over 1:1 with binder items, and for freeform layout of binder items we can already do that with the corkboard. It would also have to change its philosophy from a flat plane to something that can address outline depth.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
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UnusualSuspect
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:09 am Post

Arial's an atrocity? Okay. But I'm comfortable working with it. At least it isn't Comic Sans. :P

My computer doesn't have enough memory to upgrade to Lion, so I guess I'll just have to keep doing my own saves.

I don't need Scapple to map onto anything. It would just be nice to have it as an additional feature, like the corkboard or outlines, neither of which I use very often. But standalone is okay.

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AmberV
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:56 am Post

Well, it's a bad rip off of Helvetica (but I'm a font nerd, so ignore me!) that Microsoft pushed because they were too cheap to licence Helvetica. ;)

It would be nice to have autosave on 10.6 as well, but putting a ton of development into a custom auto-save system for an OS that is now two versions old isn't the best use of time, unfortunately. Don't feel too bad about not being able to run Lion though. 10.6 is still my favourite OS X version, and if 10.8 is any indication, I have a bad feeling it will remain the apex for a long time to come.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
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