WORDS ARE KING to writers - THEY ARE OUR #1 PRIORITY!

No
Nobbo
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Thu May 14, 2020 4:55 am Post

I have posted this elsewhere on the In-Project Word List thread from 2018, but would like to throw it out there again in 2020.

It is just to say WORDS ARE KING to us writers, and that the tools for managing them SHOULD NOT BE A BOLTED-ON AFTERTHOUGHT.

EVERY writer will use words that are not in the standard spellchecker - whether they are writing about Thai Cuisine or Pet Care or Alien Invasions or Hobbit's Feet Hair - WE NEED THE TOOLS TO ACCURATELY AND EFFICIENTLY CHECK AND MANAGE OUR WORDS AND GRAMMAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is from the other thread:

"I strongly back the case for personalised in-Project Word Lists.

WORDS ARE OUR BUSINESS!!!

I am creating a whole universe with several THOUSAND non-standard words: lots of proper nouns of places and people and clans; lots of fantasy names for creatures and effects and artefacts; lots of religious terms in Greek, Latin and Sanskrit; and a whole lot beside! Not only do I want to be able to place these all in the Project, I also want to split them according to their type AND then create glossaries according to type.

This rings true for EVERY writer out there - fiction or non-fiction. New words and specialist jargon is rife in everything, as are proper nouns. I have been using Scrivener for less than a week and I am already adding pretty mundane standard words to its limited dictionary, let alone the thousands of my own devising!

I WILL SAY AGAIN: WORDS ARE OUR BUSINESS and without proper vocabulary management tools and grammar checkers, Scrivener is falling way short of my expectations despite the glowing plaudits it receives elsewhere.

Tools to enable the accurate use and management of ALL WORDS should sit at the heart of the software, NOT be some peripheral add on with throw-away excuses towards platform limitations and the like. It is overcoming those sorts of poor excuses that inspired Scrivener's creation, so it is time to realise THE WORDS ARE KING."

I am not interested in people like devinganger making tech-sounding excuses - computers are General Purpose Machines, mate, THEY ARE ONLY LIMITED BY THE PEOPLE WHO DEVELOP THEM!!!

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devinganger
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Thu May 14, 2020 5:05 am Post

I really wish you had let the past stay the past instead of dragging me into your rant by name. However, I will merely offer you the blessing of Ecclesiastes 10:12-14.

Have a nice day.
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes

No
Nobbo
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Thu May 14, 2020 5:21 am Post

Do you practice what you preach? Don't need no Chapter and Verse citation for that one, it is pretty universal.

Tw
Twolane
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Thu May 14, 2020 8:17 am Post

Tkd eorfk sdlfig asmco orgjv asdof-ksdjf mzv,fgk.

Or something.

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AussieDoc
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Thu May 14, 2020 10:06 am Post

Tkd eorfk sdlfig asmco orgjv asdof-ksdjf mzv,fgk.


I see you've had an email from my four year old grandmunchkin :lol:
Windows 10 Pro
Bought Scrivener 1.9.16.0 but loving 2.9.9.7 Beta
And I will write 500 words
And I will write 500 more...
:D

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Marc64
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Thu May 14, 2020 10:10 am Post

Twolane wrote:Tkd eorfk sdlfig asmco orgjv asdof-ksdjf mzv,fgk.

Or something.


Easy for you to say.
Thanks in advance for your patience with this non- techie user

Scrivener 3.1.5
Mac OSX Catalina 10.15.5
Blog: https://marcfalber.co.uk/

Tw
Twolane
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Thu May 14, 2020 1:22 pm Post

Tkd eorfk sdlfig asmco orgjv asdof-ksdjf mzv,fgk.


Scrivener doesn't know the words, and I'm baffled as to what to do next.

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Floss
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Thu May 14, 2020 1:57 pm Post

Nobbo wrote:I am creating a whole universe with several THOUSAND non-standard words

please don,t do that.
i am happy to give feedback on short passages.

be warned, though. my feedback can be blunt... always well intentioned and aimed at helping you improve, but possibly more honest than you are used to.

as such, i will only chip in if directly invited.

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krastev
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Thu May 14, 2020 2:31 pm Post

Floss wrote:
Nobbo wrote:I am creating a whole universe with several THOUSAND non-standard words

please don,t do that.

Star Trek's Klingon, Avatar's Na'vi, Lord of the Rings' Quenya, Sindarin...
So why not?
Krastev
Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Scrivener for Windows Version 1.9.16.0
Testing Scrivener Beta for Windows

Ji
JimRac
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Thu May 14, 2020 3:56 pm Post

Nobbo wrote:I have posted this elsewhere on the In-Project Word List thread from 2018, but would like to throw it out there again in 2020.

It is just to say WORDS ARE KING to us writers, and that the tools for managing them SHOULD NOT BE A BOLTED-ON AFTERTHOUGHT.

EVERY writer will use words that are not in the standard spellchecker - whether they are writing about Thai Cuisine or Pet Care or Alien Invasions or Hobbit's Feet Hair - WE NEED THE TOOLS TO ACCURATELY AND EFFICIENTLY CHECK AND MANAGE OUR WORDS AND GRAMMAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is from the other thread:

"I strongly back the case for personalised in-Project Word Lists.

WORDS ARE OUR BUSINESS!!!

I am creating a whole universe with several THOUSAND non-standard words: lots of proper nouns of places and people and clans; lots of fantasy names for creatures and effects and artefacts; lots of religious terms in Greek, Latin and Sanskrit; and a whole lot beside! Not only do I want to be able to place these all in the Project, I also want to split them according to their type AND then create glossaries according to type.

This rings true for EVERY writer out there - fiction or non-fiction. New words and specialist jargon is rife in everything, as are proper nouns. I have been using Scrivener for less than a week and I am already adding pretty mundane standard words to its limited dictionary, let alone the thousands of my own devising!

I WILL SAY AGAIN: WORDS ARE OUR BUSINESS and without proper vocabulary management tools and grammar checkers, Scrivener is falling way short of my expectations despite the glowing plaudits it receives elsewhere.

Tools to enable the accurate use and management of ALL WORDS should sit at the heart of the software, NOT be some peripheral add on with throw-away excuses towards platform limitations and the like. It is overcoming those sorts of poor excuses that inspired Scrivener's creation, so it is time to realise THE WORDS ARE KING."

I am not interested in people like devinganger making tech-sounding excuses - computers are General Purpose Machines, mate, THEY ARE ONLY LIMITED BY THE PEOPLE WHO DEVELOP THEM!!!
Nobbo,

I like your idea. If L&L implemented something like this, I would make use of it.

But please stop with the all caps shouting. This makes you come across like a petulant child stomping its foot, and does your argument no favors.

Best,
Jim
I’m just a customer.

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auxbuss
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Thu May 14, 2020 4:26 pm Post

Floss wrote:
Nobbo wrote:I am creating a whole universe with several THOUSAND non-standard words

please don,t do that.

In the UK, we call that America :D
Last edited by auxbuss on Thu May 14, 2020 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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devinganger
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Thu May 14, 2020 6:04 pm Post

JimRac wrote:But please stop with the all caps shouting. This makes you come across like a petulant child stomping its foot, and does your argument no favors.


Reminds me of Usenet and the Dark Tower, actually...

"See the TURTLE of Enormous Girth..."
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes

Ki
Kinsey
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Thu May 14, 2020 10:46 pm Post

One of my favourite book series of all time, up to and including (chronologically speaking) The Wind through the Keyhole. I thought the last three were pretty rushed and poor in comparison. But what an ending.

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Floss
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Fri May 15, 2020 8:36 am Post

krastev wrote:
Floss wrote:
Nobbo wrote:I am creating a whole universe with several THOUSAND non-standard words

please don,t do that.

Star Trek's Klingon, Avatar's Na'vi, Lord of the Rings' Quenya, Sindarin...
So why not?

two of those are tv/movie settings where the created languages are designed to flit by in a few moments and are never actually dwelled upon or intended to be understood. the actor conveys the meaning through emotion, but it,s either meant to be glossed over, or it,s translated via subtitles/actual liveaction translation.

if you look at lotr -- how many made up words actually are there. names, sure. places, obviously. but you have to do a fair bit of reading to find them.

i,d have been more impressed if you,d used the examples of lewis carroll or the absolutely delightful walter moers, but again, with the exception of the very short work of jabberwocky, how many new words did they actually use between them, and how frequently were they deployed.

let,s do some maths on the scenario proposed by our young hero. let,s conservatively say that thousands of new words means two thousand -- the smallest number that logically fits that description. in a 50,000 word novel , assuming the words are actually used -- otherwise why bother -- that means at least 1 word in every 25 is made up. let,s say that each word is used at least twice -- again otherwise why bother inventing a word, and my scrivener stats on word frequency say that 3-6x is pretty standard for the more obscure words in a novel length manuscript so 2x is conservative... that means that actually 1 in every 12ish words is made up. that,s roughly 1 a sentence.

how tiring would that book be to read.

go back and compare that to lotr -- how many sentences do you go through before you come to an invented word that isn,t a place or character name. let,s make it easier... how many pages. or is it actually chapters.

my advice -- don,t do it. it,s a lot of effort for something that you,re bound to overuse. just write in the language your reader speaks. after you,ve finished your first draft, if you still think that the manuscript would be improved with some colourful elements then go back and tastefully add.

unless you, re walter moers

##

tl;dr -- please don,t do that
i am happy to give feedback on short passages.

be warned, though. my feedback can be blunt... always well intentioned and aimed at helping you improve, but possibly more honest than you are used to.

as such, i will only chip in if directly invited.

Ji
JimRac
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Fri May 15, 2020 4:35 pm Post

@Floss - Excellent analysis! I'd add A Clockwork Orange to your list of works which leverage invented words. That said, it's been years since I've read it, and perhaps Burgess didn't invent quite as many as I remember.
I’m just a customer.