Wish for Scrivener and Scapple for Android

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carlower1
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Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:40 pm Post

I am starting to do more and more writing on my tablet.

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KB
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Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:30 pm Post

We hope to bring both to Android, Scrivener first, but we can't give any dates as to when that will happen. I don't imagine that Scrivener for Android will start development much before this time next because of existing commitments to Scrivener updates on existing platforms.

Thanks and all the best,
Keith
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re
reepicheep
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Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:47 pm Post

Also bear in mind that the development of Scrivener for iOS has been rather protracted. Three years and counting by my reckoning; though that does include the original developer's time (they had to step down for personal reasons). With the replacement programmer it has been two years and the product is till not released. So even if development of Scrivener (or Scapple) for Android is mentioned as having started it will likely take a loooooong time to reach market.
Techie details in case I forget

Scrivener 3.1.3 (11945)
Mac OS X 10.13.6
Scrivener 1.1.5 (1301)
iOS 9.3.5/12.3.1

Am
Amcmo

Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:16 am Post

I'm not an Android fan, (burned with an app being ripped off within weeks) however I would imagine the development of the Android app will be a far shorter process than the iOS.
The team seem to have learned a lot in the painful iOS experience that will make Android development a far shorter process.

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Daniela Wolfe
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Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:40 am Post

Also, while the iOS, Windows and OS X version run off a different code base, it has been mentioned that the Windows version runs off the QT framework. QT is compatible with android, so they already have a code base from which to start whereas the iOS version had to be written completely from scratch.
Have a delightfully devious day,

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re
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Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:02 pm Post

Daniela Wolfe wrote:Also, while the iOS, Windows and OS X version run off a different code base, it has been mentioned that the Windows version runs off the QT framework. QT is compatible with android, so they already have a code base from which to start whereas the iOS version had to be written completely from scratch.
Whereas many (all?) of the frameworks for iOS are identical to those in Mac OS X. OS X has many more but the iOS ones provide the same functionality albeit in a gesture-based rather than mouse-al environment.
Techie details in case I forget

Scrivener 3.1.3 (11945)
Mac OS X 10.13.6
Scrivener 1.1.5 (1301)
iOS 9.3.5/12.3.1

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KB
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Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:46 pm Post

No, the frameworks aren't all the same at all, although they have similarities and many equivalents. The Foundation frameworks are the same (the data handling), but all of the UI frameworks are different. On the Mac you have Cocoa, and on iOS you have Cocoa Touch. The fundamental classes for each are different (NSView on the Mac, UIView on iOS) and work quite differently, given that the latter is designed from the ground up for a touch interface.

When we started, iOS didn't even have a rich text system. It got added a couple of years ago so we could harness it, but instead of NSTextView you have UITextView. So although we could take advantage of much of the work done on OS X, a lot of it had to be rewritten all the same. That took about two months of my time last year (just implementing comments, annotations and so on at the model level, with some drawing customisation, along with the RTF saving), and that's not including all of the other stuff Tammy has had to write for the text system, such as the extended keyboard row, the comment and footnote popovers, support for Scrivener links and so on, any one of which can take days or more to implement (weeks to get the extended keyboard row to do everything we wanted).

The Android version will indeed be based on the Qt code written for Windows, and I've even seen the Windows version running on Android, but you really wouldn't want to use it like that, with the desktop UI plonked on a mobile device. All of the UI will need recreating (although they may be able to reuse things like the corkboard and outliner, whereas we had to write those almost from scratch - the Mac's outliner, for instance, is a very heavily-subclassed version of OS X's standard outline view, but iOS has no such comparable control).

So yes, I expect the Android version will take longer than we predict (internally), and as I say, we won't even be starting it until next year because we already have our hands full with updates to existing platforms. So we can't give any sort of idea as to when any putative Android version would be ready - it's just something in our plans for next year (and our existing work is already taking longer than we had hoped!) and something we hope to release in the future at some unspecified, distant, vague date. :)
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Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:46 am Post

I am a relativelly new converse to Scrivener's concepts, metaphors and workflow. I am very demading about a writing environment, since I produce reports for a living on a very strict timing and contents. I have even renounce to the über-powerful collaboration features of Google Docs in my team, favouring workarounds in order to use Scrivener as late as possible in the workflow.

Scrivener offers so huge advantages compared with a typewriter-derived word processor than choosing it is a no-brain election for all the professionals who really care about their writing environments. It is also a game changer for students and researchers... I would really appreciate it when I was conducting my PhD research!!

One insidious problem related with all kind of writing is inspiration. You are walking, or in a coffee, or even in the WC and suddenly here it is: the solution of a hard writing problem, just in front of your eyes. A lot of times you don't want to carry a PC with you, just a light tablet, but then you are inspired in the middle of a park and you need all your documents of your scrivener project.

When I try to do that with an Android tablet (Samsung Note 12 Pro, which I really prefer because of its size, so close to actual DinA4 paper), it is a mess. I haven't find a rtf editor in Android which don't utterly mess RTF files (for example, images suddenly disappear). I will use my iPad instead when Scrivener will be offered for iPad, although I rather prefer Android tablets.

But that's because I can. Outside of America, iPad is not so common. On the contrary, Android is the commonest tablet these days, and for a good reason: a lot of students can afford a nice Android tablet for 250$, but they don't do the same with iPads in most of Europe. The pockets of the vast majority of Europeans are filled with Android smartphones, which would be useful for minor editions of single documents of a Scrivener project. Finally, in a lot of European industries, Android is already the standard OS for smartphones and tablets.

A simplified Scrivener on Android would be accesible for hundreds of millions of users, and probably hundreds of thousands of students, researchers and professionals would at least test it as a working tool. The business case is crystal-clear

Even worse, your ideas and workflow can be implemented by other development firms. Some people have already done that, luckily for you in OSX/iOS (luckily as the majority markets are not covered with Ulisses III, for instance). A guy tried to reproduce part of your ideas on LyX, which was QUITE SMART but was not finished. As far as I understand it, your opportunity window will not be opened forever.

I am enjoying Scrivener so much that I really want it to be as hugely succesful as it deserves

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devinganger
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Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:17 pm Post

Perhaps this is just another sign I'm a horrible person, but watching appeals to the business case gives me the same feeling as watching the player who just got a yellow card in a football match argue with the referees. I've yet to see it give the desired results.
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Am
Amcmo

Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:41 pm Post

While there is obviously a huge base of Android users out there, and not wishing to pick a fight, using dubious (incorrect) sweeping statements on base don't help the argument for an immediate Android version.

Worldwide sales stats don't support the sweeping claims of overwhelming numbers of Android tablets (beyond very cheap browsing only type devices), neither do Samsung's/Lenovo's/etc own financial reports.

Let's just say they both have large installed bases, and huge fan bases.

I don't know why the iOS version was first into development, possibly because it was asked for first, but that's the current reality. L&L don't have the resources to do both developments in parallel, and as Keith has pointed out several items, just throwing money or additional staff at it is not the answer for a truly professionally developed app.

Keith has said an Android version next is in the queue. Like us iOS users, it will happen as resources and a thorough professional development allow. Yes we all get frustrated at the wait, but when both versions arrive they will be 'killer' apps. Hammering the L&L team for immediate results won't change anything (iOS uses have been just as guilty).

Meanwhile, many iOS users, myself included find Evernote a great app for those moments of inspiration while out and about. A quick jot on the iPad, and easy pretty painless syncing. No reason I can see why you can't achieve the same with the Android version of Evernote.

Yes, an integrated Scrivener app will be the bee's knees on both platforms, meantime we use what's available and wait (patiently).

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KB
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:11 am Post

Thanks for the kind words and interest in an Android version. As I say, we plan to build an Android version eventually, but development on it is unlikely to start before next year because of existing commitments to iOS, Mac and Windows, so I doubt it will see the light of day before 2017 at the earliest.

Ideas and workflows can always be copied by others, of course, but fortunately we have a ten-year head start on anyone who wants to copy us. :) As for Ulysses, that (great) app was around before us and, although there is crossover, we appeal to different writers on the whole, I think. I appreciate your concern, but we are doing very well and don't make decisions based on trying to be first to market (as can clearly be seen with our iOS tardiness :) ). If being the first to market was the only thing that mattered, no one would ever buy anything new. Instead, we concentrate on making the best software we can with the resources we have available. We have a lot of cool things planned for the desktop version first, and want to concentrate on catching up with the Windows version before we stretch development resources further.

Thanks and all the best,
Keith
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jl
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:44 am Post

KB wrote:Thanks for the kind words and interest in an Android version. As I say, we plan to build an Android version eventually, but development on it is unlikely to start before next year because of existing commitments to iOS, Mac and Windows, so I doubt it will see the light of day before 2017 at the earliest.

Ideas and workflows can always be copied by others, of course, but fortunately we have a ten-year head start on anyone who wants to copy us. :) As for Ulysses, that (great) app was around before us and, although there is crossover, we appeal to different writers on the whole, I think. I appreciate your concern, but we are doing very well and don't make decisions based on trying to be first to market (as can clearly be seen with our iOS tardiness :) ). If being the first to market was the only thing that mattered, no one would ever buy anything new. Instead, we concentrate on making the best software we can with the resources we have available. We have a lot of cool things planned for the desktop version first, and want to concentrate on catching up with the Windows version before we stretch development resources further.

Thanks and all the best,
Keith


As a researcher with 17 years of experience, I have to say that I was not ready to believe that I could achieve meaningful improvements on my working environment. But a colleague of mine insisted me for testing Scrivener and here I am.

I'll use iOS version as soon as it is ready. Before that, I use it on the run both on a windows or a linux (chromeos + crouton) laptops. Besides amazing integrated environment, I also love how Scrivener is integrated with MMD, since I can export almost faultless from it to LyX.

I use Scrivener inside dropbox folders. Is there any new feature planned for improving team work? I mean, individual .rtf can be edited carefully, but it would be a huge step if some colleagues work on the same project. Nowadays I use scrivener on production, but I have to abandon it when all the team merge their respective parts.

Keep up the good work!

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Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:14 pm Post

I only have one thing to say:

Ulysses has just released a new version for iOS that mimics the MAC version and people are very happy with it.

Scrivener has 0 iOS versions.

:oops:

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KB
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:39 pm Post

rfog wrote:I only have one thing to say:

Ulysses has just released a new version for iOS that mimics the MAC version and people are very happy with it.

Scrivener has 0 iOS versions.

:oops:


I'm not really sure what that has to do the price of fish. Plenty of other apps have iOS versions, too. Ulysses is a wonderful application, but it is a very different program from Scrivener - pretty much the only thing they have in common is that they are both for writers. Without wishing to tempt fate or be arrogant, people might want to check how well we sell compared to other writing apps - even those that *do* have iOS version already out - before prematurely predicting our demise. :P We hope that our users will be just as happy with our iOS version as Ulysses users have been happy with theirs.

Welcome to the forums, though. ;)
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jl
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:06 pm Post

Are new synchronizing features going to improve collaboration between different users who work in the same project using scrivener?