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pigfender
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Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:16 pm Post

It seems to me that Scrivener is essentially two different programs (it's not, but it helps me to think as if it is):
#1: software to help you prepare your draft free from the distractions of formatting and without constraints on structure
#2: software to take your manuscript and apply structure and formatting to it.

Part #2 is the Compile functionality. #1 is everything else.

The trouble is that the structure that makes the most sense to you for organising your writing might not be the most appropriate structure to achieve the vision you have on compilation. This is more likely to be the case when you start to include things like Prologues, Appendices, and other things which you may treat exactly like any other Chapter while writing, but for which you need completely different title elements, formating and page layout options.

So, you are left with three choices:
#1: Set up your structure at the beginning so that the Folders, Files and layout in the Binder matches your eventual vision for the compiled book.
#2: Write your manuscript the way that makes sense to you, and then re-arrange the binder at the end to suit the compilation you want.
#3: Set up compile settings that get you most of what you want based on your preferred writing structure and live with that.

I don't believe that any of these options is 'perfect' or aligns to the vision KB has for the software. Each has their problems...
#1: It's against the Scrivener philosophy of 'write without format or structure constraints'. Added complications if you want to produce more than one format output.
#2: Moving things in the Binder is easy, but it's destructive editing. This approach only works if you intend to compile only at the end of the writing process, as opposed to compiling works in progress at various stages of development.
#3: It's a compromise.

So here is my Wish List item. Well, in fact I have two of them. Maybe three. Okay, actually it's four...

#1: Collections! You can set up individual Collections for each of your intended compile formats, and you can re-order them to your heart's content without affecting your Draft. However, there are two things you can't do to them: change them from folders to files (and vice versa), or change their level in the compile heirarchy. If you do these in a Collection without affecting the Draft, you could have a lot more flexibility between writing as you want and compiling as you want.
#2: Even if you don't implement #1, it would be helpful to those of us that use Collections to compile to have the level of the documents visible in the Collection as opposed to the flat list. (I guess this would need to be an option to switch on/off?).
#3: I'd like to be able to disconnect the level of a document from that of a parent. At the moment, the maximum level a document can be for compile purposes is 1 higher than its parent. I use different levels to drive different formating. See the example here from the recent NIAD which uses levels to allow a section to have different indentation and formatting:
Binder.JPG
Binder.JPG (64.65 KiB) Viewed 885 times

The trouble is, if I wanted to start a chapter with a section like this, I'd have to manually format in my draft and not have compile override (which I don't want to do - especially when I intend to compile to various different formats), or I'd have to insert blank files as parents - which would give me extra line breaks due to the transition Separators between documents. If I could have a level 4 document immediately following a level 2 document, I could have a much greater degree of flexibility on the compile process. Incredibly useful when people insist on including quotations in their NIAD chapters :D
#4: In order to make the levels even clearer than they are at the moment, perhaps some gentle column shading in the binder? You can have a on/off switch for purists. You have to admit, the diagram you produced did make it easier to read!:
LITERA~3.jpg
LITERA~3.jpg (11.95 KiB) Viewed 885 times

#5: eBook contents pages! At the moment the title of the entry in the contents page is just simply take from the title of the document (on the Windows version - not sure on the Mac). It would be great if this could also include whatever title prefix and suffix you have set up. Using the Title and ony the title, means that all the info you want to use (including things like the words "Chapter" or "Part", or any numbering placeholders) needs to be in there - meaning less flexibility - and greater disconnect from how you want to write to how you want to compile.

Okay so it was five.
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KB
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Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:46 pm Post

pigfender wrote:#1: Collections! You can set up individual Collections for each of your intended compile formats, and you can re-order them to your heart's content without affecting your Draft. However, there are two things you can't do to them: change them from folders to files (and vice versa), or change their level in the compile heirarchy. If you do these in a Collection without affecting the Draft, you could have a lot more flexibility between writing as you want and compiling as you want.


This wouldn't work - there's a good reason collections are flat lists. Collections are arbitrary lists of documents. If they allowed hierarchies, whole structures could be destroyed by deleting a document in the binder, and each document would have to remember that it had an infinite number of possible children depending on what collection was being shown. It's just not really practical, and would add complexity rather than reduce it anyway.

#3: I'd like to be able to disconnect the level of a document from that of a parent.


I don't understand why you would want to do this. It would also make things more confusing, not less confusing. At the moment, you look at the documents in the binder and can count down - here is a level 1 document, here is a level 2 document, and so on. But you are saying that you want a document that is at level 3 in the binder to be treated like a level 4 document? That would be weird, and confusing, and I'm not sure how it would confer any advantage.

The trouble is, if I wanted to start a chapter with a section like this...


But realistically, how often would you ever want to do that? I don't think this comes up enough to justify adding such complexity. And it wouldn't be possible in the binder to have a sub-document appear as a sub-sub-document without a container in-between - that's antithetical to the folder/file structure and would require a completely different binder structure, more of an indented list structure than a file/folder structure.

... or I'd have to insert blank files as parents - which would give me extra line breaks due to the transition Separators between documents.


I'm not sure if there is a bug in the Windows version here, but on the Mac version you wouldn't get those extra lines. You would just set the blank document not to be included in Compile (in the "Contents" pane or via the inspector) and it would be treated as though it were not there. So there is an easy workaround for these rare situations that doesn't require trashing the entire binder organisation and replacing it with something else. :)

#4: In order to make the levels even clearer than they are at the moment, perhaps some gentle column shading in the binder? You can have a on/off switch for purists. You have to admit, the diagram you produced did make it easier to read!:


This sort of thing is useful in diagrams, but it would be very bizarre in the binder itself, I think - it would also go against UI standards.

#5: eBook contents pages! At the moment the title of the entry in the contents page is just simply take from the title of the document (on the Windows version - not sure on the Mac). It would be great if this could also include whatever title prefix and suffix you have set up.


This is a Windows limitation. It is there on the Mac, and I was explaining up-thread about some of the options relating to this. On the Mac, you tick a checkbox to tell Compile to add in the title prefixes for Scrivener links (which also affects contents pages in e-books), and determine a separator to go between the prefix and title instead of blank space or empty lines.

All the best,
Keith
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pigfender
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Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:34 pm Post

If they allowed hierarchies, whole structures could be destroyed by deleting a document in the binder,

If you allowed the disconnect between the level of a document and the document above it (wish#3)this wouldn't have to be the case?

would add complexity

I think of it as adding flexibility

It would also make things more confusing, not less confusing. At the moment, you look at the documents in the binder and can count down - here is a level 1 document, here is a level 2 document, and so on. But you are saying that you want a document that is at level 3 in the binder to be treated like a level 4 document? That would be weird, and confusing, and I'm not sure how it would confer any advantage.

It could be more confusing, I grant you (hence Wish#4). The advantage is simply I have more control and flexibility over the formating of my manuscript and am able to write one way and compile another.

But realistically, how often would you ever want to do that? I don't think this comes up enough to justify adding such complexity.

You're right of course that it's less common. Books like Dune by Frank Herbert that use such things tend to use them for all chapters rather than the occasional one. I suspect this is more common in non-fiction than novel writing.
Again, I think of it as providing extra flexibility rather than complexity (the advantage of not being the guy who has to code it, I guess).

that's antithetical to the folder/file structure and would require a completely different binder structure, more of an indented list structure than a file/folder structure.

A Scrivener project doesn't actually create folders and create a heirarchy in the files on your computer. It's a simple list of text files and an overarching table of contents that says what to do with them. The file format would need to change, I see that. As I understand it the TOC works in the heirarchical nature using <Children> commands to nest files in the binder. The BInder is essentially a linear list from top to bottom - could the TOC not just say for each position in the Binder which file to look up, what type of file it is, and what level it is?

You would just set the blank document not to be included in Compile (in the "Contents" pane or via the inspector)

True. But this is the place for wishes! :D I just don't like the idea of having things in my Binder that aren't there to hold some sort of content.

there is an easy workaround for these rare situations that doesn't require trashing the entire binder organisation and replacing it with something else. :)

Yeah, it would require a major format overhaul. But you like coding, right? :D

This sort of thing is useful in diagrams, but it would be very bizarre in the binder itself, I think - it would also go against UI standards.

Agreed - just included as I think it would be necessary if you allowed wish#3.

This is a Windows limitation

Fair enough

Basically, my suggestions are about trying to set up Scrivener in a way that enables me to write in a format and binder structure that suits me, rather than setting it up to suit my eventual compile requirements, which may change depending on different export formats, audience and use, and may evolve during the process of writing the document. I'm guessing from your answers, though, that you don't really agree with this initial premise, and therefore I am trying to solve a problem that you don't think exists... in which case, fair enough!
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Maelduin
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Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:28 pm Post

KB wrote:Hi Maelduin,

No one's calling you unintelligent! Far from it. We're just trying to get to grips with the confusion. Your screenshots help - I think I can see the main point of confusion now.


No, no, I know no one's accusing me of being unintelligent - I'm just explaining that I am. I'm bright enough when it comes to words, but anything involving numbers or spatial sense leaves me confused.

Your explanation below is really good and helpful - thank you - but I still have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

Take another look at your first screenshot, in particular at the "Prologue":

Image

Now look at the options you have ticked in Formatting:

Image

There are three "Section Types" in "Formatting":

• Folders
• Text groups (text documents with subdocuments)


I don't understand this, quite. When I make document A into a subdocument of document B, the result is that document B turns into a folder. What are these text groups, please?

• Regular text documents.

Each has a different icon. The icons for text groups and regular text documents are similar, with text groups being indicated by the icon being stacked.

Now look again at your "Prologue" document. Is it a folder, a text group, or a regular text document? Look at the icon.

Hopefully, upon looking at it with fresh eyes, you can see that it is clearly a regular text document - it is not stacked; it has no subdocuments itself. Its icon matches the bottom icon in the "Section Types" list of the "Formatting" table:

Image

Note that you have not ticked "Title" for regular text documents, which is required if you want the Prologue's title included.

If you do tick "Title" for regular text documents, of course, then this will affect those "Scene" documents, too, which you don't want. But that's okay. Your "Prologue" document is at level 1, where as your "Scene" documents are at level 2:

Image

So, you need to tell Compile to add titles for your level 1 regular text documents, but not to your level 2 regular text documents. At the moment, you have titles turned off for regular text documents at "Level 1+" - this means at level 1 and at all levels below level 1 (level 2, level 3 etc). You need to select the regular text document row in the "Formatting" table (the third row) and click on the "Add Level" button:

Image

Now you can tell it to turn on titles for text documents at Level 1 (e.g. "Prologue") but not for text documents at Level 2+ (Level 2 and subsequent levels):

Image



So I don't turn on titles for Level 1+ in the document group, but I do for Level 1+ in the folder?

Check those settings against your binder. What these settings say are:

• Folders at Level 1+ will only have their titles included. This will affect all folders ("Level 1+", so folders at all levels, but you only have folders at level 1 anyway, so that's not an issue) - "The Curse of the Kidds", "Charlie's Chestnutts" and so on. In the "Section Layout..." pane for folders, you will want the title prefix to add "Chapter <$n>" or whatever.

• Text groups at Level 1+ - I've left everything un-ticked here, because from what I can see of your binder screenshot, you don't have any text groups to worry about, only folders and regular text documents with no subdocuments.


I don't now, but my friend seems to be trembling on the edge of asking me to divide some of these scenes into multiple scenes. Would that make a difference? And if so, what should I tick? (I understood - or thought I understood - that ticking Level 1+ affected everything subsidiary to it. But I may be becoming confused between the Level 1+es in folders, document groups and single documents, which I am still really failing to grasp properly.)

• Single text documents at Level 1 - this will affect your "Prologue" (and your "Epilogue", I'm guessing), because that is at level 1 inside the Draft folder. I've therefore ticked both "Title" and "Text" since your prologue contains text and you want its title included.

• Single text documents at Level 2+ (level 2 and subsequent levels) - this will affect your "Scene" documents, which are single text documents, as you can tell by their icon and the fact they have no subdocuments, which sit at level 2 (they are inside folders, unlike "Prologue"). Thus I have only ticked "Text", as the titles for your chapters are being added by the enclosing folders.

<snip>

The main thing to remember about the levels in the Compile pane is that you can add or remove them, using the buttons in the top-right of the levels table. The last row for each of the three document types (folders, text groups, and single text documents) will have a "+" after it, indicating that the formatting and options for that level will also apply to all lower levels.


Aha - that's what I thought. So if I checkmark the folder at Level 1+ (in other words, the top level), won't that cause that 'Chapter 1' stuff to start up there, and include the Prologue scene and the Epilogue scene? (I'm not really understanding how the 'Chapter 1...2...3... titles relate to the folder titles.)

[The epilogue being missing and the PDF having the name Keith Blount and 'ePub Test on it] sounds as though you created the project a little while ago. I accidentally left my name in one of the templates in an earlier version, d'oh. This you can edit in the "Page Settings" pane, though, which allows you to customise the header and footer.


I'll have a look at the "Page Settings" pane. But no, I created this project three long harrowing days ago.... oh, wait, there is no "Page Settings" pane; had forgotten that. So I'm stuck with my alternate personality as KB :)

How about this? If you are still confused, send me your project - or a dummy project using the same document structure but with gibberish text - along with an example of how you want it to look when it is compiled, and I will set up the Compile options for you and turn it into a tutorial that we can put on our knowledge base?

All the best,
Keith


That's a very generous offer, which I'll take up - thank you. It will, though, have some sub-scenes, because my friend wants to divide up the existing scenes in some cases.

Edit: I've tried compiling it like this; unfortunately, while the prologue now has "Prologue: Mind the Gap" as its title, it also has:

"Created: 4 November 2006, 16:33
"Modified: 28 November 2012, 16:20
"Status: First Draft
"Label: Scene"

before starting into the prose of the prologue; kind of kills the mood.

Oh, wait, got rid of that; for some reason "Meta-Data" was ticked in the last two levels. Have unticked them.
Last edited by Maelduin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:39 pm Post

AmberV wrote:Indeed, the user manual even has this illustration, which makes sense to me, but then again I made it. Any feedback on what would make this confusing would be appreciated:

Image


Just my 2 cents, but I think this could be clearer if the "Example Binder" section of the shot had sample document names/titles/something besides "Level 1, etc.". Having the same "Level 1, Level 2" I find confusing, until I figured out that I was looking at the "Binder" instead of the compile box. Yes, I know it's labeled, but having the names match exactly leads me down the path of "they will match that way in what I'm looking at" where in the real world, it is highly unlikely that they will match (assuming most people don't name their chapters "Level 1", etc. :-))

Anyhow, that may just be me, but wanted to toss it in for consideration.

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Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:21 pm Post

Call me Captain Oates. I may be gone for some time. My friend has asked for section breaks in many of the scenes now. The epilogue (which you'll remember was a single lonely scene, at Level 1, I think it was) is now split into six scenes.

Compiled, these are now titled Epilogue-1, Epilogue-2, etc.

(Am I right in thinking I should create five more levels below the current bottom one, which is Level 2+, and untick their Title squares? Or would that create subdocuments... and should they be inside folders if that's what they're supposed to be?) (Tried that, and it mostly works.)

By the way, the # # # in between scenes isn't appearing; I think I took them out of wherever they were in some earlier attempt. Where should I put them back? Oh, wait, got them; changed the Separators section to Custom for Text Separator and entered "# # #". That works fine in *almost* every place. The one place it doesn't work is before the epilogue, where - because it's a separate file, following a file within a folder, it is preceded by "# # #".
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Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:51 pm Post

Maelduin wrote:I don't understand this, quite. When I make document A into a subdocument of document B, the result is that document B turns into a folder. What are these text groups, please?


If you made A the subdocument of B, then B would turn into a text group. But in the picture of your binder, you had no text groups. Here is a binder with a text group:

Image

A text group is exactly the same as a text document, except that it has subdocuments. But your prologue doesn't have any subdocuments, so it is not a text group.

So I don't turn on titles for Level 1+ in the document group, but I do for Level 1+ in the folder?


Yes, because you have no text groups in your binder as far as I can see. You could turn on titles for text groups, but it wouldn't do anything seeing as you have no text groups in the binder. It would just make no difference.

To explain further:

• "Prologue" is a single text document with no subdocuments on the top level of the Draft folder (Level 1) and you want it to include the title and the text. So, we tick "Title" and "Text" for level 1 text documents.

• Your "Chapter" holders are folders at Level 1. You just want them to show the titles, so we tick "Title" for folders at "Level 1+". As you don't have any folders at deeper levels that you want to do different things with, that's all we need to do. (If you had parts and chapters, you might need to add a "Level 2+", with "Level 1" for parts and "Level 2" for chapters, but you don't have that setup so we don't need to worry about this).

• You have scenes inside the chapters and you just want their text displayed. These scenes are inside the chapter folders and are thus at Level 2. We therefore add a "Level 2+" layer of formatting for text documents and tick "Text" only.

I don't now, but my friend seems to be trembling on the edge of asking me to divide some of these scenes into multiple scenes. Would that make a difference?


No, that wouldn't make a difference, as long as the scenes are at the same level (line up vertically). It would only make a difference if you started putting scenes inside scenes rather than having them next to each other.

(I understood - or thought I understood - that ticking Level 1+ affected everything subsidiary to it. But I may be becoming confused between the Level 1+es in folders, document groups and single documents, which I am still really failing to grasp properly.)


Any document type can be at any level in the binder. You just need to take a look at your binder and work it out, which for most binders, where things are only going to be two or three levels deep by the time you get to Compile, should be straightforward. For instance, look at this one:

Image

When working out the Compile settings for this, you just go through things and work out their levels. "Prologue", "Part One", "Part Two", "Epilogue" and "Appendix" are all at level 1. "Chapter One", "Chapter Two" and "Note" are at level 2. And "Scene A" and "Scene B" are at level 3. But we can format them differently because we have different types of document here, too. Applying these to the formatting levels in Compile, we have:

- Folder Level 1 = "Part One" and "Part Two".
- - Folder Level 2+ = "Chapter One" and "Chapter Two"
- Text Group Level 1 = "Appendix"
- Text Document Level 1 = "Prologue" and "Epilogue"
- - Text Document Level 2 = "Note"
- - - Text Document Level 3 = "Scene A" and "Scene B"

In other words, documents can be formatted by both hierarchical level and type (folder/text group/text). This provides an enormous amount of flexibility. It takes a bit of getting used to and a little thought about how you have structured things when you set up your Compile settings, but it allows Compile to handle a vast range of different binder structures.

Aha - that's what I thought. So if I checkmark the folder at Level 1+ (in other words, the top level), won't that cause that 'Chapter 1' stuff to start up there, and include the Prologue scene and the Epilogue scene?


That's right. Your chapters are folders, but your Prologue and Epilogue are text documents. So, anything you tick in the folder levels won't affect Prologue and Epilogue. Only what you tick or format in the text document levels - the levels with the text document icon - will affect those documents.

(I'm not really understanding how the 'Chapter 1...2...3... titles relate to the folder titles.)


"Chapter N" is added as a title prefix. So, if you select the "Level 1+" for folders and click on "Section Layout...", you will get a panel that allows you tell Compile to insert some text before the document title. By having "Chapter <$n>" there (or one of the other auto-numbering tags), Scrivener can insert the chapter number before the title during Compile. You'll want to make sure you have these prefixes for your level 1 folders (which are your chapters) but not for your level 1 text documents (which are your prologue and epilogue).

I'll have a look at the "Page Settings" pane. But no, I created this project three long harrowing days ago.... oh, wait, there is no "Page Settings" pane; had forgotten that. So I'm stuck with my alternate personality as KB :)


Huh, there should be a "Page Settings" pane in Compile if you are exporting to PDF and many other formats. It doesn't appear if you are exporting to e-book formats, though.

That's a very generous offer, which I'll take up - thank you. It will, though, have some sub-scenes, because my friend wants to divide up the existing scenes in some cases.


No problem.

Edit: I've tried compiling it like this; unfortunately, while the prologue now has "Prologue: Mind the Gap" as its title, it also has:

"Created: 4 November 2006, 16:33
"Modified: 28 November 2012, 16:20
"Status: First Draft
"Label: Scene"


Check those tick-boxes again - this means you have ticked the "Meta-Data" column for your level 1 text documents. :)

Oh, wait, got rid of that; for some reason "Meta-Data" was ticked in the last two levels. Have unticked them.


Ah, you caught it, great.

(Am I right in thinking I should create five more levels below the current bottom one, which is Level 2+, and untick their Title squares? Or would that create subdocuments... and should they be inside folders if that's what they're supposed to be?)


You won't need more levels unless you are having documents-within-documents-within-documents:

Image

Image

By the way, the # # # in between scenes isn't appearing; I think I took them out of wherever they were in some earlier attempt. Where should I put them back?


That's handled in the "Separators" pane.

All the best,
Keith
"You can't waltz in here, use my toaster, and start spouting universal truths without qualification."

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Maelduin
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Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:46 am Post

One small problem left: the # # # separators appear above the title for "Epilogue". Is there any way to have "Epilogue" appear as a chapter rather than a separated scene, without having a chapter title on it? And also, now that the Epilogue is split into five separate scenes, they all have the title Epilogue: Scene 1, Epilogue, Scene 2, etc.

Edit: incidentally, the Search All search still isn't working on this project. Very #weird.
Last edited by Maelduin on Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:13 pm Post

I've had trouble with compiles too, but this very thorough worked example is really helpful - thanks for taking the trouble to do that. Could there be a special section of the site (HowTos, FAQs, Tutorials) where posts like this could be listed? People may not read the manual, as the psych said, but they may search the site/web with a specific question.

[EDIT - duh, just read the rest of the post, and you're planning to do this anyway. I didn't know about the knowledge base.]

One thing, though. As one of the 7% of males with red-green colour-blindness, there are only two different colours in your dots and labels illustration. Maybe change that?

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Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:47 pm Post

Maelduin wrote:One small problem left: the # # # separators appear above the title for "Epilogue". Is there any way to have "Epilogue" appear as a chapter rather than a separated scene, without having a chapter title on it? And also, now that the Epilogue is split into five separate scenes, they all have the title Epilogue: Scene 1, Epilogue, Scene 2, etc.


Tick "Page Break Before" for your "Epilogue" document. Because it is a text document following another text document, at the moment it will just be separated using the text document separators ("# # #" if that's what you set). So just tick "Page break before" for that document, either in the inspector or in the "Contents" pane (where it is abbreviated to "Pg Break Before").

Edit: incidentally, the Search All search still isn't working on this project. Very #weird.


Try clicking on the triangle next to the magnifying glass in the search field in the toolbar, and check to see if the search is limited in some way - a menu pops up with options in it, and you might have set it to search only part of the project, or only titles or suchlike, at some point in the past.

All the best,
Keith
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Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:48 pm Post

simeva wrote:One thing, though. As one of the 7% of males with red-green colour-blindness, there are only two different colours in your dots and labels illustration. Maybe change that?


I'll be sure to bear that in mind in future, sorry. I should be more sensitive of that, especially since my son is one of the 7% too.

All the best,
Keith
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Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:05 pm Post

KB wrote:Tick "Page Break Before" for your "Epilogue" document. Because it is a text document following another text document, at the moment it will just be separated using the text document separators ("# # #" if that's what you set). So just tick "Page break before" for that document, either in the inspector or in the "Contents" pane (where it is abbreviated to "Pg Break Before").

Edit: incidentally, the Search All search still isn't working on this project. Very #weird.


Try clicking on the triangle next to the magnifying glass in the search field in the toolbar, and check to see if the search is limited in some way - a menu pops up with options in it, and you might have set it to search only part of the project, or only titles or suchlike, at some point in the past.

All the best,
Keith


The search contained ticks on whole word only (which I've tried to uncheck without success) and on "Search 'Included' documents" and "Search 'Excluded' documents".

By the way, the sub-scenes of the Epilogue still have titles in the compiled .mobi. There, rather than appearing as scenes with # # # between them, they are titled "Epilogue-1", "Epilogue-2" and so on. (Note, see below, at bottom paragraph of this)

This is their layout in the binder:

Screen Shot 2012-11-30 at 15.06.26.png
Screen Shot 2012-11-30 at 15.06.26.png (22.4 KiB) Viewed 829 times


I don't have any of the levels ticked for titles except Level 1+ folder, document group and single document. I don't see any way of making these scenes any more 'subsidiary' than they are (to get rid of those unwanted titles in the finished mobi).

Edit: waitaminute, since I moved those subsidiary scenes in to the right, as they are in the illustration above, the titles have disappeared, and they have # # # between them as they should. But another oddness has appeared: the heading "Epilogue" at the beginning of the epilogue has # # # below it!

I'm beginning to feel like someone trying to stuff ferrets into a bag here! One problem's solved and another pops up!

Edit again: Solved. I hadn't ticked 'Text' in Level 1 single document. Doing that removed the hashes and put the text in. So that's fine now. And the Search All function is working since I ticked "All Words" in the upper right-hand corner search's down arrow menu.

I really can't thank you enough for all your help, everyone who's helped with this, and when this project is out of my hair I'll make up a sample one with the same formatting and send it to KB and the lads to use as a guide.
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Ma
Maelduin
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Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:24 pm Post

Oh - so sorry - one more question. I know there's a way to save a set of Compile settings under a new name - what is it? (Oh, it's ok, found it - choose the bottom option to manage compile settings in the top drop-down menu of the first Compile pane.)

A couple of technical questions that are nothing to do with this project:
* I had got the settings right for Custom at the top and PDF at the bottom, but when I went to compile as Ebook at the top and Kindle at the bottom (of the Formatting section), all those levels disappeared, and I had to reinstate them and tick the same boxes again: title for the first level, title and text for the second and third level, and text for the fourth and fifth levels. Why isn't it like this as the default? How was the default decided on?
* And what's the difference between Ebook and Ebook with Parts in that top menu? And last, what does the top choice (Ebook, Ebook with Parts, etc) do, and what does the bottom (epub, Kindle, etc) do?
* And sometimes my eccentric friends want a graphic used as a separator, or at the start of chapters. Is it possible to use these and to edit their size?
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Ma
Maelduin
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Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:44 am Post

Bleedin eck. The Scrivener project managed to reverse an essential correction I'd put into the manuscript.
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robertdguthrie
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Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:56 pm Post

KB wrote:
simeva wrote:One thing, though. As one of the 7% of males with red-green colour-blindness, there are only two different colours in your dots and labels illustration. Maybe change that?


I'll be sure to bear that in mind in future, sorry. I should be more sensitive of that, especially since my son is one of the 7% too.

All the best,
Keith

I've seen this done fairly well in a board game. If you've ever played Ticket to Ride, you'll noticed that wherever there's a red train car, there's also a symbol of some kind there--each color has a distinct symbol embedded into the colored area. So maybe putting some symbol on top of the dots & arrows, and referencing both would suffice.
Often wrong, rarely in doubt.
Time for a change... I'm now rdale; same dog-avatar, same dog... channel?