Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:08 am Post
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:08 am Post
Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:52 pm Post
kewms wrote:Since we are not a public company, it's not clear where your supposed insight into our finances might be coming from.
Thank you for your concern, but we are fine. Hiring more people, in fact.
I think Keith has previously expressed his lack of interest in the subscription model.
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:37 pm Post
johnnyalpha wrote:Hi Katherine
Literature & Latte's public, unaudited accounts are visible via Companies House. The last set of accounts posted was up to March 2019.
I'm no accountant, but your "we are fine" statement aligns with my impression things weren't going too badly for the Directors at the last reporting period.
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:50 pm Post
mbbntu wrote:I don't do much writing these days, but Scrivener as it is serves me just fine. I look forward to a series of posts stating which features are absolutely indispensable, and each post being completely different from the others
rayl wrote:To respond to Keith's hypothetical question about a trade offs in a "cut down" version of Scrivener and specifically the example that research material might be excluded in the interests of synch via iCloud. I use Scrivener mainly for research (Economics and Art History) and keeping research sources and write up together in a project is one of its greatest strengths. It enables easy cross referring between drafting and research plus seamlessly working on a project across several machines through the excellent dropbox link.
Astaff wrote:I’m not fussed about the lack of iCloud. I have a free 2TB iCloud but apart from backups and a few work files don’t trust it for active syncing.
My extensive iCloud exposure has given me a healthy scepticism of its ability to safely handle much beyond the simplest of storage tasks. Will that change? Apple has the resources to turn iCloud into a best in class solution and with added focus on services may well make the commitment, however for now I recommend treating iCloud like a rattly old ‘spinner’ that may crash the heads into the disc at any moment.
Login wrote:Dear Keith
Our lives are dependent on so many other lives: family, friends, the people who bring us into this world, provide health care, food, water, power, products, dispose of our waste, educate us, etc, etc , etc. There are so many people in the web of our existence that the number of interdependencies we all rely on just boggles my mind. I cannot identify all the people who have made my life better, but in your case I can say unequivocally that you have had a major impact on my life, and one that I will be forever grateful for.
Although I might never be a good writer, you - through Scrivener - have made me a far better writer than I was and would otherwise have been, and for that fact alone I am both grateful and indebted. I don’t have heroes, but if I did, you would, without a doubt, be wearing a cape around your shoulders and underpants over your tights.
I have complete and utter respect (and some envy) for what you have achieved, and admiration for the way you have benevolently helped others to strive and achieve.
I feel some personal shame in speaking so candidly about my recent experiences with Bear, and I in no way mean any disrespect to you or the company or any other users. I am just trying to explain that my needs (in part because you “trained” me to be a better writer) have changed over time, and that in changing I have progressed along a path that has for the moment diverged a little from the L&L one. No malice. No agenda. Just my personal, unimportant experience.
Apple has, especially with the improvements made to the last couple of OS releases, made me lazy. I take a photo on my iPhone and it is there on my iPad and Macs, without thinking. The same goes for emails, messages, contact details, notes, books, PDFs, calendar appointments, reminders, films, music tracks, etc.
Through sloth and some tech issues with Dropbox, I have found myself sorting out the IT of getting Scrivener for Mac and iOS to play perfectly together, rather than just getting on with writing. Bear works like my other Apple apps: everything, everywhere, without thinking.
So, yes, if there was a simpler version of Scrivener that worked between my Apple devices as other Apple apps do, I would certainly be a customer. We waited a fair amount of time for iOS Scrivener to be released, but when it was, it was a thing of elegance and beauty. On first release, Dropbox wasn’t an issue: just so glad to have Scrivener available on an iOS device. But now, with Apple getting me into ever lazier habits, Dropbox and the need to sync manually are just small grains of grit that get in MY way. I emphasise MY because I completely accept that my laziness is MY own fault and that many other users are completely happy with the way things are now. Also accept that I am an ass for letting a little grit grind me down, but I am what I am, and I just want to get as much grit out of my life as I can. No disrespect meant. Apologies if this analogy grates in any way.
So I am not imploring you to make any changes: your vision, your company, you know what works for the greater number of users, and so all that matters to me is that you should drive ahead with whatever makes you happy and successful. I would love a version of Scrivener that worked through iCloud like other Apple apps, but far more than that, I want you to do whatever is best for you, your happiness, your welfare, your family, and your company. My feelings and workflow don’t matter at all. I will always be thankful for the positive impact you have had on my life, and I am in no position to ask for anything when it is clear that you are far smarter than I will ever be.
All the best.
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:26 am Post
KB wrote:Thanks, both. We're putting together a survey to get more information about how users use Scrivener and which features they find the most vital, and what sort of payoffs they would be happy with for some of the most common requests.
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:47 am Post
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:53 am Post
Thanks, both. We're putting together a survey to get more information about how users use Scrivener and which features they find the most vital, and what sort of payoffs they would be happy with for some of the most common requests. I'm genuinely interested in the answers. Also, I do find myself thinking about a simpler version of Scrivener, if only to make the code base more manageable on my end!
Again, thank you for your polite and thoughtful feedback - and for your very kind words. I certainly do not take offence at anything you say or find it disrespectful in any way, and the perspective is useful. I'm curious about how many others feel the same way who haven't stuck around to tell us.
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:18 pm Post
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:49 pm Post
Silverdragon wrote:Hi, @KB. Dang. I keep starting drafts of this post, and they keep coming out as rants that will ignite a flame war. Not my intention.
For me, Scrivener could change in the following ways and still be my go-to writing software. I will say that the corkboard / synopses are core to how I use Scrivener; the Outliner, less so but still important. I would be disappointed if stacked corkboards disappeared!
- I don't use Scrivener as a research repository, so don't feel that users have to be able to dump everything into Scrivener in order to keep me as a user.
- There are many similar sets of features that enable users to do almost the same thing: for one example, the term "notes" can mean about seven different features – and has in various forum posts. Please feel free to delete near-duplicates. I will cope somehow.
Regarding ease of sync: have you looked at how Ulysses handles its external folders feature? It's a different sync paradigm that might be a better fit for Scrivener projects. It can be used with any cloud service that's accessible via the iOS Files app, including but not limited to iCloud, Dropbox, et al. It might be easier on Windows users. It would involve changes to the Scrivener project structure, but what wouldn't?
Finally, some suggestions about UI. You are right that users seem less and less inclined to read doc – and the same can be said for developers wanting to provide it! The problem I see with Scrivener is that when I start an empty project, I get a document pane that looks very similar to a document pane in Word, or Pages, or even TextEdit. The Tutorial looks like a polished Word doc. The temptation is to assume that that I already know 90% of how to use this software, when in fact I probably know about 10%.
My suggestions: make it obvious from the start that there is a learning curve. Don't call styles "styles" unless they're to be used the way styles are in Word – think up another name. Put those "outline boxes" around them; lose the way to make a style without them. Hide the format bar by default, and bury how to make it visible in the menu system, except possibly for character attributes and a "styles" pulldown. And somehow apply changes to the default formatting automatically to all extant documents in a project. Do it to different projects as they're opened.
And make "as-is" a hard-to-access compiling option.
In short, I suggest you make Scrivener look and act more like a markup-based writing app. No one expects to send what they see in the Ulysses editor to their audience, be that audience readers, a professor, or a judge. I suggest it be the same with Scrivener. I know that this is contrary to how you envisioned Scrivener in the beginning – I've butted heads with you on this before! – but I believe it would help new users have realistic expectations.
Of course, you will do exactly as you decide, and I will likely remain your customer and loyal user.
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:55 pm Post
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:58 am Post
Silverdragon wrote:In short, I suggest you make Scrivener look and act more like a markup-based writing app.
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:39 am Post
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:46 am Post
Silverdragon wrote:I totally agree with you that all the formatting commands should be available from the compile format dialog. It just doesn’t make sense to have to go to the menu system while in a modal dialog. OTOH, the dialog is pretty crowded already; where would you put them?
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:50 am Post
lunk wrote:About formatting at the Compile stage, there is one detail which creates confusion. You decide on font size and a lot of stuff in the formatting pane, but then you suddenly have to use the Format menu commands for paragraph spacing and a few other things? That’s not logical.
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