Anyone using WinScriv under WINE …

User avatar
xiamenese
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:32 am
Platform: Mac
Location: London or Exeter, UK.

Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:25 am Post

As there is no specific WINE forum, and as I am perhaps a particular use-case, as I need to use WinScriv under WINE — though as a non-techie using the Crossover GUI — on my Mac, I thought I’d start this thread for anyone who’s using WinScriv under Linux to signal my experience.

The motivation is that I’ve just installed WinScriv 1.7.3.0 on my Mac using Crossover 13.2.0.27771, in both a winxp and a win7 bottle. I’ve put initial comments on the

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=28622

thread, if anyone’s interested. And I would certainly be interested in any comments you may have, though I realise our host interfaces are very different.

Mr X

EDIT: Crossover 13 uses WINE 1.6 Stable version
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
iMac 27" (late 2015) 10.15.4, 24GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 16GB RAM, 2TB SSID
2017 iPad, iPadOS 13.3, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

User avatar
garpu
Posts: 2045
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:38 pm
Platform: Linux

Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:46 pm Post

First, can you update wine to at least 1.7.whatever? They say it's unstable, but it's really not. Plus scrivener works out of the box without overrides. You might have better performance. Granted the last time I've tried wine under a Mac was 2008 or so.

Fonts: make sure whatever you need is in the wine font directory (I'll grab a path name when I'm not on the tablet.) I've had issues with wine not using fonts unless they were in that directory.
Slackware-current 64-bit, XFCE

User avatar
xiamenese
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:32 am
Platform: Mac
Location: London or Exeter, UK.

Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:40 pm Post

garpu wrote:First, can you update wine to at least 1.7.whatever? They say it's unstable, but it's really not. Plus scrivener works out of the box without overrides. You might have better performance. Granted the last time I've tried wine under a Mac was 2008 or so.

Fonts: make sure whatever you need is in the wine font directory (I'll grab a path name when I'm not on the tablet.) I've had issues with wine not using fonts unless they were in that directory.


Thanks Garpu,

As I said, although I’m totally at home on a Mac — been Mac-centric for about 25 years! — I’m not actually that geeky. A little while ago I thought I’d use an old 2005 17” MacBook Pro to install Linux to start learning how to use it, but recently it seemed more sensible to sell it, plus another no longer needed first version MacBook Air and my wife’s iMac in part exchange for a newer reconditioned iMac that she can use for video editing. So, learning Linux will have to wait.

So, with Crossover, I’m dependent on the version of WINE that they bake in. I don’t want to, nor really have time to work out how install vanilla WINE. After 25 years, I find the command line somewhat daunting.

But 1.6 seems to work well enough for me — the comments disappearing is new — as for most of my work I use the Mac version. I have to use the Windows version when collaborating with a Windows using friend because of the problem of Chinese coding in RTF between Apple and Microsoft. So as I say, I’m a bit of a weird use-case, but I’m interested to know the experience of anyone else using WINE under whichever host system.

:)

Mr X
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
iMac 27" (late 2015) 10.15.4, 24GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 16GB RAM, 2TB SSID
2017 iPad, iPadOS 13.3, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

User avatar
garpu
Posts: 2045
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:38 pm
Platform: Linux

Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:49 pm Post

Yeah, you're in waters I haven't explored, with specific encoding requirements. The ship of everyone using the same requirements kind of sailed back in the 80's, I think...

If my father-in-law isn't using his mac, I can try to poke.
Slackware-current 64-bit, XFCE

User avatar
xiamenese
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:32 am
Platform: Mac
Location: London or Exeter, UK.

Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:05 pm Post

garpu wrote:Yeah, you're in waters I haven't explored, with specific encoding requirements. The ship of everyone using the same requirements kind of sailed back in the 80's, I think...

If my father-in-law isn't using his mac, I can try to poke.


I’d be interested in whatever you find, but don’t give any time to it, as I know you have many other things that should take priority.

Incidentally, when I installed Scriv 1.6 I was running CodeWeavers 12.x, I think, and it wouldn’t run in a win7 bottle. The fact that it does now is cheering as no doubt future Scriv releases will have problems running under XP, so that gives me some future proofing. I might, just for fun, try installing it in a win8 bottle to see what happens. My friend and collaborator has just gone to Reed College — she has become “yet another Portlander" … albeit on a temporary basis :D — as a Reed Language Scholar, so she is busy settling in over there and I don’t suppose we will be in a collaboration yet a while, so I have time.

Mr X
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
iMac 27" (late 2015) 10.15.4, 24GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 16GB RAM, 2TB SSID
2017 iPad, iPadOS 13.3, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

User avatar
xiamenese
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:32 am
Platform: Mac
Location: London or Exeter, UK.

Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:51 pm Post

garpu wrote:Yeah, you're in waters I haven't explored, with specific encoding requirements. The ship of everyone using the same requirements kind of sailed back in the 80's, I think...

If my father-in-law isn't using his mac, I can try to poke.


I’d be interested in whatever you find, but don’t give any time to it, as I know you have many other things that should take priority.

Incidentally, when I installed Scriv 1.6 I was running CodeWeavers 12.x, I think, and it wouldn’t run in a win7 bottle. The fact that it does now is cheering as no doubt future Scriv releases will have problems running under XP, so that gives me some future proofing. I might, just for fun, try installing it in a win8 bottle to see what happens. My friend and collaborator has just gone to Reed College — she has become “yet another Portlander" … albeit on a temporary basis :D — as a Reed Language Scholar, so she is busy settling in over there and I don’t suppose we will be in a collaboration yet a while, so I have time.

Mr X
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
iMac 27" (late 2015) 10.15.4, 24GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 16GB RAM, 2TB SSID
2017 iPad, iPadOS 13.3, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

User avatar
garpu
Posts: 2045
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:38 pm
Platform: Linux

Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:27 pm Post

Here's a wild-assed guess...try running it as default or XP. The one time I tried as Windows 7, it did some really strange and horrible things to the saves. (Namely, corrputed them.)
Slackware-current 64-bit, XFCE

User avatar
jtranter
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:00 am
Platform: Mac
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:10 am Post

Reed College is famous as the alma mater for poets Gary Snyder and Philip Whalen, and also Steve jobs: he learned calligraphy there, which is what provoked him to make good typography so important a part of the Apple ecosystem. Just sayin'. Or typin'.
John Tranter
2010 iMac, 4Gb 1076 MHz RAM, 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Filco Tenkeyless (Brown Cherry switches) keyboard (Clicketty click!)

User avatar
garpu
Posts: 2045
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:38 pm
Platform: Linux

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:42 am Post

jtranter wrote:Reed College is famous as the alma mater for poets Gary Snyder and Philip Whalen, and also Steve jobs: he learned calligraphy there, which is what provoked him to make good typography so important a part of the Apple ecosystem. Just sayin'. Or typin'.


Yeah, but if the person you need to share documents with isn't on a mac, you get into strange encoding issues, which I believe is why xianmese is using the windows version under OSX.

Xianmese: have you tried a VM? Bootcamp (or whatever it's called these days) not an option? WINE on OSX has always been kind of touchy.
Slackware-current 64-bit, XFCE

d~
d~l
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:06 pm
Platform: Linux

Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:57 am Post

I don't have a Mac unfortunately. But as a VM is suggested in previous post .. perhaps try VirtualBox instead of Wine.

http://its.yale.edu/how-to/installing-w ... irtual-box.

You can either install Windows or Ubuntu as virtual machines on VirtualBox and then install Scrivener on either VM.

But first make sure you have enough RAM.

User avatar
xiamenese
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:32 am
Platform: Mac
Location: London or Exeter, UK.

Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:17 am Post

garpu wrote:Here's a wild-assed guess...try running it as default or XP. The one time I tried as Windows 7, it did some really strange and horrible things to the saves. (Namely, corrputed them.)


Thanks for reminding me. Actually, when I tried installing WinScriv 1.6 under the version of Crossover at that time — 12, I think — in a win7 bottle it wouldn’t even interact with the OS-X file system; it does this time, apparently, so I’ll try with a copy of a project, not the original to see what happens.

Xianmese: have you tried a VM? Bootcamp (or whatever it's called these days) not an option? WINE on OSX has always been kind of touchy.

I don't have a Mac unfortunately. But as a VM is suggested in previous post .. perhaps try VirtualBox instead of Wine.

http://its.yale.edu/how-to/installing-w ... irtual-box.

You can either install Windows or Ubuntu as virtual machines on VirtualBox and then install Scrivener on either VM.

But first make sure you have enough RAM.

Thanks for the suggestion garpu and d~l. Problems: (1) I’m using a late 2010 MacBook Air … lovely machine, but 256 GB SSID with 50 GB of free space which has to be managed by archiving stuff onto an external disk every few months to preserve it — so 40 GB needed for BootCamp (I believe) is not an option — and 2 GB RAM; (2) I have better uses for what money I have than spending it on buying Windows (and perhaps Parallels or whatever*) … if I was going to spend the money, I’d go to my friend Phil in Exeter and get a suitable small, reconditioned Windows laptop of some kind, but that would entail carrying two laptops around!

So for the moment Crossover suits me fine, even with its limitations.

* Though I presume Virtual Box is free/donation/shareware.

:)

Mr X
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
iMac 27" (late 2015) 10.15.4, 24GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 16GB RAM, 2TB SSID
2017 iPad, iPadOS 13.3, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

User avatar
Jaysen
Posts: 6227
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:00 am
Platform: Mac + Windows
Location: East-Be-Jesus-Nowhere SC, USA

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:54 am Post

xiamenese wrote:* Though I presume Virtual Box is free/donation/shareware.
For now. Who knows what oracle will do with it.

The problem that you are hitting is the standard "faking it" issue: eventually something somewhere realizes "you're faking it" and stops playing nice-nice. Unlike people, compute systems are quick to forget that you faked it last time and will continue to let you fool them next time. Also unlike people, compute systems do not vary their resultant actions based on emotions. Software will never accuse you of not loving it and then stop off in a tirade while blaspheming and disparaging your parentage.

And no, there's nothing up with me and the boss, but I have witnessed such an event recently.

As to how you can "fake it better" remember that some of us have been running vm on systems older than yours for quite some time. There are ticks you should to make it work. Here you go:
1. Set your VM to use very little RAM. You won't really notice, but it lets the host use more RAM.
2. Use an external HD for the OS space.
3. Steal an OS from a used laptop by using the HDD in an external enclosure. Look for busted LCD, keyboard, etc.

Using virtual box and the above steps you might have a $us40 investment for an old XP based install. might be worth looking at to make the problem go away.

As to wine… never got it working on any platform at a level that I could live with. Hence my move to VM. My needs my be a bit more stringent, but it's worth thinking about.
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

ImageImage

d~
d~l
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:06 pm
Platform: Linux

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:09 pm Post

If Windows licence purchase is an issue (I thought you already had Windows) then the options are ....

(a) install Virtualbox on your Mac

(b) install Ubuntu on VirtualBox (I would go for a version without bells and whistles)

(c) install Scrivener (Linux) on Ubuntu VM.

OR

(a) create dual boot partitions in your Mac

(b) install Ubuntu in your dual boot configuration

(c) install Scrivener (Linux) on Ubuntu partition.


https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DualBoot/MacOSX


All at $zero investment (other than time).

User avatar
xiamenese
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:32 am
Platform: Mac
Location: London or Exeter, UK.

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:27 pm Post

Jaysen wrote:As to how you can "fake it better" remember that some of us have been running vm on systems older than yours for quite some time. There are ticks you should to make it work. Here you go:
1. Set your VM to use very little RAM. You won't really notice, but it lets the host use more RAM.
2. Use an external HD for the OS space.
3. Steal an OS from a used laptop by using the HDD in an external enclosure. Look for busted LCD, keyboard, etc.

Using virtual box and the above steps you might have a $us40 investment for an old XP based install. might be worth looking at to make the problem go away.

As to wine… never got it working on any platform at a level that I could live with. Hence my move to VM. My needs my be a bit more stringent, but it's worth thinking about.

Well, Jaysen, as I have known throughout the years of our acquaintanceship here, your needs are very much more stringent than mine … in a real sense, mine are minimal, so in reality, the biggest frustration for me is the differences in interface between Windows and OSX, especially the shortcuts, though also to some extent the menus. In the other thread, I mentioned the disappearance of annotations in this version, which is a bit more of a problem, but nothing deal-breaking at the moment — and I remember there was a string of posts on disappearing comments re 1.7.2 — as my friend and collaborator has become “yet another Portlander” until May next year — so she may not have so much work for us to work on together.

On Virtual Box and using the drive from a defunct Windows box in a VM, I read the page that d~l linked to above, and it recommends a minimum of 1024 MB of RAM allocated to it, which is a problem when you’ve only got 2 Gigs. I’ve just checked on Crossover + Scrivener with our project open: it’s using 230 odd MB in total out of 1998 MB currently in use. I guess, if you’re running Windows on an external, you wouldn’t need so much RAM, but USB2 as the only connection means it would be slow to snail-pace, I would imagine.

Mr X
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
iMac 27" (late 2015) 10.15.4, 24GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 16GB RAM, 2TB SSID
2017 iPad, iPadOS 13.3, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

User avatar
Jaysen
Posts: 6227
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:00 am
Platform: Mac + Windows
Location: East-Be-Jesus-Nowhere SC, USA

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:42 pm Post

xiamenese wrote:On Virtual Box and using the drive from a defunct Windows box in a VM, I read the page that d~l linked to above, and it recommends a minimum of 1024 MB of RAM allocated to it, which is a problem when you’ve only got 2 Gigs. I’ve just checked on Crossover + Scrivener with our project open: it’s using 230 odd MB in total out of 1998 MB currently in use. I guess, if you’re running Windows on an external, you wouldn’t need so much RAM, but USB2 as the only connection means it would be slow to snail-pace, I would imagine.

Mr X

Vendor recommendations are like those of any salesman -- they are what they tell you you need not what you "must have" to get the job done. Most of my XP vm are 256M ram. They run fine for small tasks. I do let windows manage the pagefile. I do NOT have scriv running on any of them, but based on what you said, a vm w/ 512M ram would be more than enough.

As to USB2… you won't notice. 99% of your work will be done in mem and scrivs document management can be leveraged to reduce the disk penalty even further (more small docs over few large docs).

I'm not recommending this for you, just providing some "alternative" options should you decide you want to explore. The linux option is valid, but I would also look at it as a VM not a true dual boot. At least not until you are more comfortable with linux as a platform. Same "reduced spec" concepts apply.

BTW, I run multiple linux VM with 64m ram. these are "purpose built" and not usable for scriv. I'm just making the point that you don't really need all the resources folks say you need IF you plan things out a bit. But then I'm a bit of a nerd…
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

ImageImage