9th NOV - LEE'S UPDATE

Ny
Nysha
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:57 am Post

LAP wrote:Oh, there's one other thing. If I went and used a Microsoft DLL for Scrivener's core text engine, I'd need a volunteer sacrifice to go and tell those tech-crazed Linux zealots, who happen to use Scrivener for Linux natively, that someone just stepped on and crushed their toy - any volunteers?
Just introduce a couple of circular dependencies in the next version, it'll keep them busy long enough that they won't notice anything else.

(I'm nice! No really! :D )

I discovered Scrivener about four days ago (at 2am, when I suddenly decided that doing NaNo was a GREAT idea: a thought I recanted the next morning when I remembered how much work I have to do this month) and am already using it for both papers and tutorials - no fiction yet, it makes me feel guilty for never researching my fiction - and I have to say I love it. After pasting a few paragraphs of German reference text the whole marking random bits of words as misspelled (even when it's actually the whole word that's wrong, y'see, or in the case of German the whole ten-word portmanteau) got too much to bear... and I come here and see it's already fixed! What more could a girl ask for? Thankyou. :)

da
danwdoo
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:18 am Post

It's great to hear text integrity is the top priority for the next revision. I do have a question about what to do with existing imported text. I've imported (through copy & paste) quite a bit of text and see the usual odd spacing and all. I would like to do some work on the text, but do I need to wait until the editor problems are fixed or will the fixes correct the problems in my existing text? As far as what other features to work on next, I vote whichever are the most efficient at getting Scrivener to release :lol:

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AmberV
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:29 am Post

In general, I'd like to say don't worry about formatting to much, for two reasons.

1. Compiler will be able to fix most issues and homogenise the text
2. A feature will be added which will let you select a bunch of documents and conform them to your preferred editing preferences.

Right now it feels awkward, because everyone is used to static programs that force you to work the way you print, or to be stuck with how things are typeset because that is how they are. At the moment, Scrivener feels that way because not all of its tools are in place or perfected, but in the end it will prove to be a much more dynamic environment.

Another way of putting it would be: go ahead and be sloppy now. Don't worry about formatting because you'll be able to fix that all up with one sweep when these features are finalised. One of the foundational principles of Scrivener was to "be sloppy". Write without worrying about header styles and indenting and line spacing---let the program bother with that later on. These tools are not 100% done yet, but they *will* be, so you can start with the hubris now---if you dare. :)

P.S. None of this is meant to downgrade the importance of RTF stability.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

da
danwdoo
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:44 am Post

That is great and it is a different way of thinking of things! My credit card trembles with the pent up anticipation of buying Scrivener! :D

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AmberV
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:47 am Post

Definitely true! Most authors find it very liberating to shirk all of the hassles that come along with working in Word or similar solutions. Once you get comfortable with the notion of working in an authorial environment instead of a typesetting environment, it leaves you with nothing but the words to focus on. Write, write, write!

The main exception will be those who need to use formatting to convey meaning in their texts. Most often this will be academics, biographers, and so on who need block quoting and so on. Most novel writing requires nothing beyond italics. Sometimes you'll need a little finesse if you have telepathic characters, IM chats, or other special cases.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

La
Laxaria
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:12 am Post

That does sound annoying, augmenting the Qt framework to suit the needs of your development. Of course, the end product is perhaps one that allows greater ease of maturity through the years rather than having to swap through core frameworks and move through more hoops and redo done progress.

I suppose there isn't much more to it but to wait for the changes to take place, unfortunately. These issues are much less Scrivener than they are of Scrivener's framework, and I think FocusWriter (?) may also benefit significantly if augmenting the source code of Qt to allow all these issues to be fixed. IIRC, Focuswriter's developer utilises the Qt framework as well. It might be of interest to you, this tidbit of information.

I'll look forward to the updates in the near future, by right now there isn't much more that can be done other than to wait quietly and just be patient. We all want Scrivener for Windows, surely, but unfortunately before it can develop further, it seems that its backbone needs to be reinforced.

Such is the difficulty of developing software sometimes. I think we're all confident you'll get out a product many times better than what we have now in about 3-4 weeks, and I think, given the time that most of us have been waiting for Scrivener for Windows, waiting that amount of time might be fine.

Not much to be done but to wait and be patient.

PS: Have fun coding! :)

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narrsd
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:14 pm Post

Lee, it's sounding like a wise overview, and that you guys do have understanding of what you are about very well in hand, and for the most significant areas especially.

The one thing I don't see addressed yet is that of ability-lockout and Scrivener-having-to-close bugs. Those are probably pretty important, when they occur, and of course they are often the most troublesome to get a handle on, as once you know where they are, often they're easy to fix, but that finding out of where the issue actually begins can be hard.

It's proportionally up to us to document how to get into trouble this way, and I'm trying things to duplicate what I ran into right after installing 1.3, after which many actions would cause a crash-close. So far, not getting it back, but I will find it, and then will report.

I'm thinking you might keep a block of operational capacity earmarked for fixing things like this, as they get documented, so that reliability for writing's value gets timely and consistent attention. It might give a suitable variety to plowing ahead on well-defined coding as well, and it's what can allow us to invite further friends to sample Scrivener.

Otherwise, I've very glad to hear the tone and clarity in what you're saying. Each of you individual''s personal interest and insight in this way is what makes the project, and so the project is healthy. And it is a fine one, as you know.

The later plan for prioritizing is probably quite a good idea too.

Thanks, Lee, and all of you.

Regards,
Clive

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MadameHardy
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:49 pm Post

AsyouknowBob, parsing RTF is a nightmare because (A) undocumented and (B) full of cruft from days we dare not name. Good luck.

Ja
Jak
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:41 pm Post

I agree with DiscoveredJoy's idea on selecting the most important bugs individually. Also, I'll pass on telling the Linux users. They're dreams are crushed often enough as it is. XD

Ma
Max
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:15 pm Post

Max looked up, his eyes wide and his lower lip quivering. His eyes gained a sheen of moist. When he spoke, his voice was uneven. 'Tell the Linux users? No... nononono!' His head shook hard from side to side for each no, and then he stood up fast and headed for the door.

'I'd rather jump into a pit full of vipers.' He slammed the door behind him as he left the room, and then he leaned against the door, and closed his eyes. When he wiped his brow with a handkerchief he retrieved from the jeans pocket, his hand trembled. Tell the Linux users... indeed.

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Digitalus
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Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:49 am Post

Suggestion: Google Moderator http://www.google.com/moderator/#0

It's an easy way to get input from a lot of people and a great tool to prioritize bug fixes via democratic voting. Worth a look, at any rate.

Thanks for the update!
2020 is one long existential crisis. Change my mind.
Windows 10 x64 | Scrivener v3 Beta | QuollWriter | Word

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greyspade
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Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:33 am Post

Concerning the lag issue, I have the same but it isn't straight out of the gate. I'm running Win7 on a dual-core 2.2GHz intel w/ 4 GB of RAM (with only Firefox and FreeMind running). I only get a lag issue when I leave Scrivener open for a very long time (i.e. overnight). Restarting the program clears the memory, resolving the issue for a few more hours.

So far, life is a dream. All 28K of my NaNoWriMo project are in Scrivener for Windows, and life is good! Thanks for making this program available for us in the non-Mac crowd!

Me
Meleesa
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Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:00 am Post

greyspade wrote:Concerning the lag issue, I have the same but it isn't straight out of the gate. I'm running Win7 on a dual-core 2.2GHz intel w/ 4 GB of RAM (with only Firefox and FreeMind running). I only get a lag issue when I leave Scrivener open for a very long time (i.e. overnight). Restarting the program clears the memory, resolving the issue for a few more hours.

I have noticed this as well, it is why I open Scrivener every morning and close it every night. (making sure to save and back up when I do.)
FYI. I am running Win7 64bit unless I specify otherwise.

Li
Lilith
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Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:50 pm Post

LAP wrote:The problem we have at the moment is that Qt, the C++ framework Scrivener is built on, uses a cut down version of HTML as its editor engine. What this means is that when text is cut and pasted into Scrivener from HTML or Word etc. stray characters are often augmented and remain invisible in the Qt editor - this is the first problem and is a Qt problem that we need to fix. We have decided to bypass this altogether and augment the Qt source code so that all pasted text is first filtered through our own RTF parser. We have not started this work yet, but plan to soon.

Lee


Hi,

I came looking around via a search on "missing features", as I cannot find either the spellechecker, nor the "help file" announced by the tutorial. All I can do, is to open the tutorial again.
Maybe this is because I downloaded Scrivener only yesterday and didn't yet go through it all. If someone could help me on this, it would be great.

But this is not the subject here.
For the "stray caracters" pasted from Word and HTML, why shouldn't you use a "paste function" like the one used in wordpress blogs for exactly this reason?
This function allows, on one hand, to simply "paste" and, on the other hand, to "paste from word", via two different buttons, of which one seems to lead to some batch using an intermediate "simple text" paste.
Added on a right click, that wouldn't even be uncomfortable for the user, I think.

Unless this is what you mean by "as Qt does not support RTF out of the box", of course.

Right, I was in a quest for "missing features", so I must search on.