25th MARCH - LEE"S UPDATE - FINAL BETA RELEASED

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LAP
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Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:25 pm Post

Re: Linux packaging:
It'd be awesome if other people shared it on their own servers or via bittorrent, too.

Thanks Rob you're a star mate, I'll make sure this gets copied on our servers as well. Probably time we looked at a more co-ordinated effort anyway I know a few folks suggested that in the past and things just got busy and the ball was dropped. I'll action this early next week as I'm not in the office this weekend - feel free to kick me if I forget. Lee

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narrsd
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Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:45 pm Post

Hi Lee,

Nice release, and personally really appreciate that the window height now works with the Inspector on. Also that you are starting to leave yourself some sensible space in what's said about absolute schedules. Great, and thank you.

- I can't get the Collections to allow moving items around, but maybe what you were very welcome in trying slipped through for next time there.

- I took some time, and documented a number of things going on with kerning, tracking, letter weight under printing, and hinting on screen. Image is attached which will show them, and brief notes next.

I want to say first, though, that this can be a very demanding area, and that I am sure we are all interested that first results are just as good as far as reasonable, with possibly improvement in upgrades. Scrivener is never intended to replace an InDesign. On the other hand reasonably regular text is useful, both for screen and print, of course.

  1. Result from InDesign printed to Acrobat is at top, for reference, using Calibri 11 Regular.
  2. I checked that QT has proportional font handling; of course it does from early 2000's, so maybe it's not [all] turned on here, and will then be a simple fix.
  3. Comparing the simple Scrivener item Print to Acrobat, actually some amount of kerning does possibly seem to show, like the Th pair if they are not just naturally close together without kern. The main issue may be tracking, the general spacing between letters. However, look at the ap pair in Japanese. There is similar unevenness in a larger body of text, so more may be going on, or not going on, here.
  4. Using Scrivener Compile to PDF instead of Acrobat, things don't look better. The font weight has been increased, though not as much as a Bold font type would show. I believe the actual spacing qualities are like or close to the simple Print case, but you'd have to get the letter weight back to be sure - ap in Japanese again as example.
  5. On the Screen example, things are pretty rough. I am not sure if kerning might be turned off there; and beyond that there is the question of hinting. Actually hinting might be on, as letter shapes don't look or read so badly, but you will want to see as it can affect other appearance.
  6. Chasing this Screen font appearance a little farther by trying Adobe Jenson at for example 9 pt. and 100% sizes, maybe I uncover a little of what is going on. The appearance is that kerning pairs are being used -- but very possibly not overall kerning. Thus you get the effect with Jenson of the we of well looking kerned, and the ll looking kerned, but the overall word having extra space between we and ll.
  7. Screens, of course, can never look like print, at least not until a future super resolution, so again reasonable and seasonable is the thing for that, and I expect QT standard settings are the way to go. There was some talk on the web as to whether they defaulted to kerning, tracking, etc., but this looked old so I didn't go into it.
  8. I took a quick check of importing a full document rtf Compile into InDesign, and as expected this area of Calibri 11 text looks fine.

Hope this is the right weight and at the right moment, Lee, and I know by now how you'll use your own judgement.

Best regards,
Clive
Attachments
scrivener-kerning.png
scrivener-kerning.png (106.04 KiB) Viewed 1341 times
Last edited by narrsd on Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

Wo
Wonder
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Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:54 pm Post

Awesome Lee! However, there is one crash that I haven't seen fixed yet. If you click the very first document in the binder, then press and hold the down arrow key, Scrivener will crash when it gets to the end of the binder. Hope that makes sense.

Also, when exporting to docx, I still get a) the pop-up window saying 'document export complete' for every. single. document. It's really annoying and 'export complete' at the end would be fine. And b) the exported documents still have the words running down a column on the left side ...

I'm running Windows 7. Thanks!

km
kmcquain
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Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:20 pm Post

That seems to be an extensive update! :D

ra
rags
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Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:24 pm Post

Re: 25th MARCH - LEE"S UPDATE - FINAL BETA RELEASED
by LAP on Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:11 pm

There is still a gentle problem with Project Statistics for me.

When I try to load it, it always freezes everything for a while - at least 10 / 15 seconds before it appears.

Then when it gets there and I click "options", that comes up quickly, but it it freezes again for a long time if I try and click back to "Statistics" and once again everything is frozen (and sometimes the whole screen mists out - not always) for an equally long time.


Noted, we'll be looking at things like this specifically next week. Out of interest how many words in the document that is freezing for this 10/15 seconds and what specification is your machine?

LAP


------------------------
There are about 60000 words in my manuscript and the computer I am using has an AMD quad core 2200MHz processor and 3GB of RAM

All the best.

Ma
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:24 am Post

Awesome update, Lee. Glad to see everything coming together, especially the ability to convert formatting to default text style.

BUG: I'm not sure what's up with the Zip functionality for backups, but it doesn't seem to be doing folders properly, resulting in 0 byte files with the same name as the folders within the zip (e.g., there's both the folder named "My Project.scriv" and an empty file named "My Project.scriv"). This prevents Zip files from extracting properly without modifying the contents of the zip file, since the folders can't overwrite the files.

Also, if it's not too much to ask, it would be nice if the backup naming were changed to yyyy_mm_dd_HH_MM_SS (that's 24-hour time) so that it sorts by name properly for easy archiving. :)
Author cancels write; interrupted by carp.


Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 32GB RAM, AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 6-core 3.8GHz

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garpu
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:30 am Post

garpu, the only reason Scrivener will default to my documents is when it does not have rights to write to the Program Files directory. If it can write it will default to Program Files. This enables users to install Scrivener without Admin rights - well that was the idea. I know you probably know all this but can you please double check.


Now this is really weird.

drwxr-xr-x 7 hildegard 4.0K 2011-03-25 09:41 Program Files
drwxr-xr-x 4 hildegard 4.0K 2010-12-07 01:36 users
drwxr-xr-x 14 hildegard 4.0K 2010-12-07 06:07 windows

Same privs as I have on every other file in my home directory (what the sim link to .wine/drive_c/users/hildegard/My Documents points to.)

I manually pointed it to install to ~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/Scrivener, and it installed just fine.
Slackware-current 64-bit, XFCE

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CrispKyle
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:36 am Post

On the Scrivenor for Windows page for me Beta 2.0 is still up and not 2.1, has 2.1 been put on the page yet?

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RobHamm
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:38 am Post

LAP wrote:Re: Linux packaging:
Thanks Rob you're a star mate, I'll make sure this gets copied on our servers as well. Probably time we looked at a more co-ordinated effort anyway I know a few folks suggested that in the past and things just got busy and the ball was dropped. I'll action this early next week as I'm not in the office this weekend - feel free to kick me if I forget. Lee


Aw, thanks, man. You're the guys who do all the heavy lifting, though; I basically just followed Randy's instructions to make a deb, since I'm not a real programmer but wanted to contribute something--even something minor like this.
:-)
BTW--Is the Linux version going to have a built-in auto-update feature? If not (well, and really, even if it does), I was thinking it might be nice for us Linux folk if we had a repository--either on Lit&Lat's servers or at say, SourceForge or Launchpad, and perhaps even try to get Scrivener into some of the official distro repositories--Especially now that Ubuntu's software center has a section for paid software. Not that it's difficult to install or anything, but it'd be nice to just install with software center, apt-get, and synaptic, and have it update whenever we run software updates.

Oh, and will there be a 64-bit compile?
-Rob
An Experimental Life (my home page)
Read me at Daily Science Fiction
The Crimson Pact Anthology, volume 2
"This is an experimental life. Press any key to continue. Press any other key to explode."

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Marta
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:57 am Post

Sounds like you made massive progress

will be working on the new one later tonight

A big thanks for your hard work!

Marta
Marta
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rs
rswirsky
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:13 am Post

So, when I try to open either my newly downloaded version of scrivener or the last one, scrivener politely informs me that the program expired on April 10, 2011, and I should go get the update. I would be happy to oblige, but unfortunately the "enter the future" button on my browser is broken. :(

I'm loving this program & can't wait for it to get released. Any tips on how to get me back into the beta in the meantime?

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MimeticMouton
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:18 am Post

rswirsky - You need to completely uninstall the previous beta (020) before installing the new one. It sounds like you may not have done that, and it could be causing the trouble.

CrispKyle - Try dumping your browser cache/refreshing the webpage. It's there; your browser just isn't seeing it.
Jennifer Hughes
(MM for short)

rs
rswirsky
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:45 am Post

Hi MM,

Alas, that doesn't seem to help. I've uninstalled everything & tried blanking and reinstalling the new version a couple of times, but I only end up back with the error message. (Thank you for the very quick advice, though, and any more you have would be appreciated.)

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xiamenese
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:15 am Post

LAP wrote:Before we get down to business, I thought I'd share something amusing this week regarding a post I read on another website's forum about 'real writers' only using Macs. Well, that certainly got my attention.

We had a thread a while back on the Mac forums by someone who asserted that "Professional writers only write in white characters on a blue screen", and so wanted the whole interface of Scrivener changed to that as otherwise it couldn't be considered a serious, professional writing tool ...

The ways of the world are many! :D

Mark
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
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Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

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RobHamm
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:52 am Post

xiamenese wrote:We had a thread a while back on the Mac forums by someone who asserted that "Professional writers only write in white characters on a blue screen", and so wanted the whole interface of Scrivener changed to that as otherwise it couldn't be considered a serious, professional writing tool ...

Dude... Someone took that position with a straight face, or was it a troll?

Of course, there are still people who claim that nothing produced on a computer should be considered art of any kind. When I hear that I tell 'em, yeah, and screw brushes and canvases and the like, too; If you can't do it on a cave wall with your bare hands using natural pigments you gathered and mixed with the blood of your tribe's enemies, it ain't art. And writing? Bah! Oral tradition is where it's at, baby. None of that sissy "language" stuff, either. Grunts and whistles and pointing a lot were good enough for Australopithecus, and they're good enough for me. Evolution of the form nothin'. Nope... Won't catch ME evolving.
:-D

Seriously, though: When the electric guitar was still bleeding-edge technology, there were those who swore that anything played on it wasn't really music. Then of course we heard the same thing about synths, keyboards, MIDI, and what have you. Now they're saying it about that new MIDI-esque instrument that looks like a guitar.

I imagine that when the word processor was invented, there were those who insisted that all "real" writers used typewriters (preferably manual ones like I learned on, as opposed to them thar newfangled electronical ones). And with the advent of the typewriter, I'll bet that there were those who insisted that to be a real writer one must write all manuscripts by hand. With a quill. In squid ink.

Me, I figure a "real" artist of any type is one who strives to create art.
-Rob
An Experimental Life (my home page)
Read me at Daily Science Fiction
The Crimson Pact Anthology, volume 2
"This is an experimental life. Press any key to continue. Press any other key to explode."