Scrivener for Windows

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devinganger
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Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:29 pm Post

Kinsey wrote:That is not a comment on the developers or the release timetable, just an observation on the contention that updating the beta = updating stable, released software.


Nobody contended that. It's still a beta. You're still implicitly agreeing to be doing more testing and providing a higher level of feedback than you would for a normal release. The beta is not simply a loophole to use the most recent software without having to worry about licensing; the increased update tempo is *part and parcel* of this agreement.

For those who are participating in the beta and following the discussions there, the quote you mentioned has been talked about. Obviously, if every user stuck to that, nobody would be testing the built-in updater logic. There are many of us in the beta who simply use the in-app updater and have been doing so for many versions with no major issues. There's always the chance that we see something weird happen and have to manually uninstall/reinstall to validate. And if you aren't opening up Scrivener before the expiration date, then you have to manually uninstall/reinstall (or reset the system clock).

But none of this changes the fact *it's a beta test.* More potential work is required, and if one isn't good with doing that work, then one perhaps may not want to use the beta. To use it *and then gripe about the conditions of being in a beta* is disingenuous at best. We're writers, allegedly. Words still mean things.
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Devin L. Ganger
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devinganger
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Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:31 pm Post

xiamenese wrote:Recently, up until RC12 or 13 it has been perfectly feasible to upgrade the Beta using the option within the app. Sadly, some sort of change in an update to Qt at that point has been causing the internal updater to fail and crash Scrivener.


And not everyone is seeing that same issue. I've used the internal updater with great success through all recent RC versions.
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Devin L. Ganger
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes -- Kevin Flynn

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Kinsey
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Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:14 pm Post

devinganger wrote:
Nobody contended that.


I read the two below quotes as contending just that. I may have been mistaken, and if so apologies to Jaysen and OwenKelly.

OwenKelly wrote:I would respectfully suggest that these people are likely to be disappointed. Almost all software worth having gets regular updates, and my guess is that people who get the (free or paid)version 3 when it is finally released will have to install version 3.01 within a couple of months, and then 3.02, and then...


Jaysen wrote:I guess I'm confused. As both a Mac and Windows user, There are updates due to DEFECTS IN THE CORE OS for both platforms on a regular basis. In the case of Windows, every month... on a Tuesday. Is the problem that a "once a month install" for Scrivener is another set of downtime?


devinganger wrote:It's still a beta

... Snip ...

But none of this changes the fact *it's a beta test.* More potential work is required, and if one isn't good with doing that work, then one perhaps may not want to use the beta. To use it *and then gripe about the conditions of being in a beta* is disingenuous at best.


Thank you for explaining the beta process to me. :lol:

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devinganger
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Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:33 pm Post

Kinsey wrote:
devinganger wrote:
Nobody contended that.


I read the two below quotes as contending just that.


Context. Some people were expressing discontent about the update cadence of the beta, and folks were pointing out that updates for released, production software happen just as often (if not more so). Updates are just a fact of life in the modern computing era.

Some people are really stretching to find reasons to justify being jerks to L&L out of their sense of entitlement.
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Devin L. Ganger
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Jaysen
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Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:11 pm Post

As Devin said, I'm only suggesting that ALL software gets updated and some of it monthly. From big names. To address DEFECTS that were released to production. If MS followed the level of testing and quality control that L&L is following, Vista would have never happened :)
1. Because user feedback would have driven feature development instead of "theoretical need" driving feature development.
2. MS would have fixed KNOWN BUGS before releasing every OS. One could suggest that Win 10, Mac OS after Lion, and every linux product ever would be DOA as well.

What I am unclear of is how the rate of update is too frequent for Scrivener beta but not for every other MS, Apple and Linux product. Especially the core OS that is the foundation for all software. If MS/Apple/Linux can't release less frequently, and no one is complaining to them, then I don't see the issue with the L&L BETA having a monthly release.

What am I missing?
Jaysen

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SkylerT
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Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:34 pm Post

Jaysen wrote:What I am unclear of is how the rate of update is too frequent for Scrivener beta but not for every other MS, Apple and Linux product. Especially the core OS that is the foundation for all software. If MS/Apple/Linux can't release less frequently, and no one is complaining to them, then I don't see the issue with the L&L BETA having a monthly release.

What am I missing?


For me, I just don't like having to go to the download link in the forums to reinstall every month (updating from within the app doesn't work for me). I like keeping my stuff up to date and it is just another step to update this one. Not a big deal at all since it's a beta and i'm sure it will be just like the mac Scrivener process by the time it releases to the public.

Now if there is an argument against how often it updates, that's just silly. The only time frequent updates are bad are if they are SUPER frequent to the point of instability (updating daily for example and breaking things with every update because of lack of quality control). I don't see that at all here.

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devinganger
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Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:59 pm Post

SkylerT wrote:For me, I just don't like having to go to the download link in the forums to reinstall every month (updating from within the app doesn't work for me).


Are you participating in the relevant beta forum discussions about this? There are a few workarounds that have been discussed that might remove this issue for you until such time as they can get Qt to deal with the underlying bug.
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Devin L. Ganger
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Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes -- Kevin Flynn

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SkylerT
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Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:35 am Post

devinganger wrote:
Are you participating in the relevant beta forum discussions about this? There are a few workarounds that have been discussed that might remove this issue for you until such time as they can get Qt to deal with the underlying bug.


I wasn't aware there were any - I honestly hadn't looked into it. I primarily write from my Macbook Pro so I typically use the mac version. I only use the beta Windows version on my linux desktop about once a week or I probably would have looked into it more. I can try to find one of the discussions - or if you have a thread that you think would be helpful, could you direct me to it? Thanks!

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devinganger
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Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:24 am Post

SkylerT wrote:
devinganger wrote:
Are you participating in the relevant beta forum discussions about this? There are a few workarounds that have been discussed that might remove this issue for you until such time as they can get Qt to deal with the underlying bug.


I wasn't aware there were any - I honestly hadn't looked into it. I primarily write from my Macbook Pro so I typically use the mac version. I only use the beta Windows version on my linux desktop about once a week or I probably would have looked into it more. I can try to find one of the discussions - or if you have a thread that you think would be helpful, could you direct me to it? Thanks!


viewtopic.php?f=57&t=64592&p=329350&hilit=qt+update#p329350 has the most common workaround, which is switching to the 32-bit version of Scrivener, which does not exhibit the same issue.
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Devin L. Ganger
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Tribalrose
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Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:03 pm Post

I gave up on the beta early on because installing and uninstalling every month was more than I wanted to do. Admittedly I'm not one of those wild for version 3 to start with. My Scrivener use is basic enough the new features don't make much difference. In fact I don't like the Inspector changes or the new "modern" look. I spent all sorts of time changing mine to look like 1.9. :D - but I figure being a stick-in-the-mud, I'd better get used to 3. If changing the spidery look of this forum were easy, I'd do that too.

But I digress.

Some months ago I mentioned avoiding the uninstall/install procedure here in the forum in passing, and someone said why bother, just do an update each time. So I installed the beta again and tried just doing updates and have been doing that for 4 or 5 months now without problem. I can see why someone with only one PC would consider it a risk, but since I have two machines and use Dropbox and backup every day to a USB also, I don't consider it a risk - if an update screws up on the laptop I use regularly, I'll do the uninstall and reinstall on the desktop.

If I only had one PC, I'd be a nervous wreck about my writing all the time without Scrivener updates even entering into it.

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shaun
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Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:00 am Post

Tribalrose wrote:If changing the spidery look of this forum were easy, I'd do that too.

I can't believe I don't see more people complaining about this. I use Font Blocker https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... ghknapnikl

Some months ago I mentioned avoiding the uninstall/install procedure here in the forum in passing, and someone said why bother, just do an update each time. So I installed the beta again and tried just doing updates and have been doing that for 4 or 5 months now without problem. I can see why someone with only one PC would consider it a risk, but since I have two machines and use Dropbox and backup every day to a USB also, I don't consider it a risk - if an update screws up on the laptop I use regularly, I'll do the uninstall and reinstall on the desktop.

If I only had one PC, I'd be a nervous wreck about my writing all the time without Scrivener updates even entering into it.

I simply download the new beta and install. No uninstalling. Everything's always worked fine.

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ahleyjohn38
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Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:57 pm Post

I'm starting to feel like the Scrivener 3 for Windows has been a scam. I understand that quality software takes time to develop, but I purchased in spring of 2018 along with language that Scrivener 3 for Windows would be coming out soon (as in 2018 soon). After months upon months of waiting, I've finally asked Literature and Latte for a refund, or at least a license to the Mac OS version of Scrivener 3. They got back to me and said they could do neither.

Has anyone successfully gotten a refund?

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kewms
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Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:39 pm Post

You purchased Scrivener 1.9 in 2018. It remains fully functional to this day. You have also had access to the steadily improving Scrivener 3 beta for that entire time.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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Naegling
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Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:10 pm Post

For the love of all that's holy, just finish Version 3 for Windows. I fully realize we are the bastard red-headed stepchild of this company, but for criminy's sake I'm sick of release candidates and installing software every few months. If there was a decent alternative to your software, I would have moved to it by now.

JUST GET IT DONE. :evil: :evil: :evil:

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Twolane
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Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:57 pm Post

I'm sick of . . . installing software every few months

Ya, that five, count'em, 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5, minutes (is it even that long?) of install time really robs you out of producing content for your next work, doesn't it? I'd reckon people waste more time doodling or tipping back the chair to look up at the ceiling than it takes to update Scriv 3.

You don't doodle? You don't fall over? Then it's how long it takes to make a coffee in a machine. Or, oh, never mind.

* walks away mumbling and waving arms *