Has Windows Version 3 Been Scrapped?

Ah
Ahab
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Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:33 am Post

So the moral of Mr. Pigfender's story is, You kids shut up and eat your vegetables.

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pigfender
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Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:39 am Post

Ahab wrote:So the moral of Mr. Pigfender's story is, You kids shut up and eat your vegetables.

Oh, very good! :D
http://www.pigfender.com | http://www.novelinaday.com
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Max Gardin
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Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:43 pm Post

devinganger wrote:Even if you don't want to download and use the beta, all you need to do is read the Windows Beta forum to get a good sense of what issues are being seen and what is being worked on. The devs have even stated on a couple of bugs that they are not likely to be fixed before release, so we are starting to get a sense of what the cut-off line is.


My thoughts. Sorry for my english, not my native language.
I use only the stable version of Scrivener (1.9.16), so I can't evaluate the beta version per se, but looking at the changelogs I see always dozens and dozens of corrections and this is not reassuring for me cause I had the impression some bugs are recurring ones or new bugs are introduced fixing others.
Could be wrong, of course, it's just an impression, but the frequent answer I read - even by L&L staff not only by other users like you - to "check changelog and evaluate by yourself" instead to clarify which parts of the beta version still need polishing and which are ok, let me think there wasn't by no one a precise idea about the real stage of the software or the reliability of the code.
I had the same impression - that scrivener code wasn't clean - when the 1.9 version got several hotfixs to fix the Paddle issue. Despite the hotfixes, I personally struggled months with the "license bug" on one of my two devices, with my support ticket opened and closed more times and I "solved" definitely the issue when I was forced to reinstall (with all issues related) windows 10 stuck in a loading loop at startup after a Scrivener crash (my best idea is the installation of the major updates of windows 10 regularly conflicts with Paddle license server on some devices) and this experience is something should never happen to a customer.
In short, even considering the first RC was 1 year ago, I would be surprised the new version was released soon (within the end of this year). And, once released, I would never jump, personally, to use version 3 after the experience I had with Paddle bug.
I wouldn't be misunderstood, I love Scrivener, I use the 1.9 version - that luckily fits my needs - almost every day. I wish all the best to the new version. Just no confident the development will end soon.

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Kinsey
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Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:40 am Post

Max Gardin wrote:
Could be wrong, of course, it's just an impression, but the frequent answer I read - even by L&L staff not only by other users like you - to "check changelog and evaluate by yourself" instead to clarify which parts of the beta version still need polishing and which are ok, let me think there wasn't by no one a precise idea about the real stage of the software or the reliability of the code.


I think this is a good point. I don't think it's fair to ask average users to track progress based on the posts in the beta thread. Most users probably don't frequent the forums. Those that do can see that work is ongoing, but not what progress is being made. There's a difference. I have no doubt that WinScriv3 will be released, but I have no idea how many bugs are left to squash and what features are left to implement. Nor am I saying I should know that kind of internal information, I'm just pointing out that the average user will look at the blog posts relative to WinScriv3 and see that the beta is nearly 3 years in progress, it's more than a year since the release date of August 2019 was missed and 10 months since any public comment was made. I've followed the few development updates here on the forum closely, am aware of how much work is going into the Windows version and of what the difficulties facing Lee and Tiho were/are. Most users won't have done that, and would probably be reassured by some kind of formal, public comment on development.

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kewms
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Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:19 pm Post

We aren't asking users to track bugs. That's our job! We're just suggesting that the beta updates are one way to observe ongoing progress, as evidence that Windows Scrivener 3 has emphatically *not* been "scrapped."

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

lo
logaandm
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:56 am Post

devinganger wrote:
Umina wrote:We've had Windows for 50 years

My 2011 Mac does not scream, even with an SSD-ectomy. I frequently do, however, waiting for slow OS updates.

But don't let little things like facts get in the way of your little rant...


MacBook Pro's from 2011 have comparable clock speeds to modern MacBooks most of the time. Most current laptops will run "bursts" of high clock rates for short periods of time. For steady workloads the clock speed is lower and only 10-30% faster than the CPUs of 2011 even when under load. This is to save power and keep heat down. Modern GPU's are much faster, however. For MacBooks, Faster (AMD) GPUs are only found on the 15" or larger models.

Faster SSD speeds are usually only noticeable during boot or disk intensive operations such as video editing. Scrivener should run quickly on modern hardware and on 2011 hardware unless you have a large project with lots of graphics.

In other words, for 90% of people a 2011 MacBook Pro with SSD runs almost as fast as a 2020 MacBook Pro.

If your MacBook is running slow this usually indicates a hardware problem.

1. Your CPU/GPU requires new thermal paste and overheating is causing thermal throttling.
2. Your battery needs to be replaced. It doesn't matter if you are plugged in to external power.
3. You replaced your battery with a third party battery not recognized by Apple.
4. Sometimes another issue, likely hardware related, but potentially software such a virus.

When MacOS boots, it checks the battery. If the OS thinks there is a flaw in the battery then the OS will slow the CPU down to prevent possible damage, or at least that's what Apple claims. There is a "hack" to get around this particular problem when it is caused by an unrecognized third party battery.

Replacing the thermal paste and a fresh install of MacOS will often make an older MacBook run faster and smoother.

The Intel Power Gadget is a great free tool to see what your CPU is doing. If it is consistently below your rated clock speed, then you have a problem.

2011 13" MBP CPU is 2.3-2.7GHz dual core
2020 13" MBP CPU is 1.4- 3.9 GHz quad core (base 2019 model was dual core)

There are many reasons to buy a new MBP, but faster CPU isn't one of them. Better screen and more cores for smoother multi-tasking are at the top of my list. OTOH, I have an old dual core 2015 MBP and I don't notice it being much slower than my 2019 8 core model most of the time.

The latest versions of MacOS will not run on older hardware and that may be a problem for some users. Windows 10, OTOH often runs flawlessly with older MacBooks as does Linux so repurposing your old MBP as a Windows machine is a pretty good idea. With older MacBooks you should use MBR booting to keep access to the audio hardware.

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Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:26 pm Post

I just started a doctoral program and Scrivener (whatever version it is) is perfect for this kind of project. I have only been working on my dissertation for a month and I already had documents all over the place: in different folders on the PC, printed copies lying around, notebooks with my thoughts on the project. Now I have everything in one place.

I doubt the veracity of posts that say people are "jumping ship." Scrivener is amazing. For example, I just discovered the snapshot tool, which lets me save versions of chapters. In fact, that's how I found this blog. I wanted to know how I will save the many iterations of drafts of chapters and sections of the dissertation.
:mrgreen:

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devinganger
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Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:47 pm Post

logaandm wrote:Lots of unsolicited Mac wankery in a...WINDOWS thread.


Cool story. Did you write that in Scrivener for Windows 3 beta?
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logaandm
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Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:29 am Post

devinganger wrote:
logaandm wrote:Lots of unsolicited Mac wankery in a...WINDOWS thread.


Cool story. Did you write that in Scrivener for Windows 3 beta?


No but I do use the Windows 3 beta on my MacBook Pro running Windows. No need to upgrade your MBP to run it in bootcamp.

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Gothelittle
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Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:12 pm Post

Ok, I've tried to follow all the convoluted stuff in this thread, so I don't know if this information will be useful or not. After all, this *is* the Scrivener for Windows forum, right?

Scrivener and speed.

I am running Scrivener 3 Beta (32-bit, of course)... on a Toshiba NB305.

This is a ten-year-old netbook, which, for people who don't remember netbooks, were designed more around small size than actual speed/power. It has a single-core 1.6GHz processor, and mine is fully upgraded to a whole 2GB of 800MHz DDR2 RAM.

It is running Windows 10 Home.

I can't even get a web browser to operate on this machine. I'm being serious. And every time it needs to restart for a Windows upgrade, I'm afraid it's going to lock up forever.

But it runs Scrivener 3.0 beta just fine. Once it loads the program, which takes a while.

I'm finally considering replacing it because the last couple of boot-ups have featured a crazy distorted version of the Blue Screen of Death, and I'm more than a little worried that, after years of *heavy* usage (and one battery replacement), its hardware is finally on its way out. But at this point, I am confident that I could buy anything Windows at any price - or run any Windows VM at any ridiculous slow-down...

...and still use Scrivener 3 Beta on it.

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kewms
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Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:35 am Post

Attempting to get the thread *somewhat* back on track...

Scrivener is designed to make very efficient use of whatever resources are available to it. That's one of the benefits of the Scrivener approach of breaking a project into smaller chunks: Scrivener only has to load whatever you're actually editing. And the actual editing is just manipulating text -- which is very fast -- rather than the real time page layout tasks that something like Word has to do.

The most demanding tasks in Scrivener are Compiling complex documents, building a large Scrivenings session, and doing a ZIP backup of a large project. As you approach the limits of whatever hardware you're using, you're likely to see performance issues in these tasks first.

This means that Scrivener itself will run on a lot of less-than-current hardware, provided it supports a Scrivener-compatible operating system.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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kewms
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Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:38 am Post

logaandm wrote:6. Old operating systems do not support some newer programs or hardware. Eventually it will catch up to you. What will happen to versions of Scrivener sold on the App store when Big Sur is pushed out is a question every MacOS Scrivener user should ask themselves.


FWIW, there appear to be no major showstoppers for Scrivener with the current Big Sur beta.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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DavidR
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Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:37 pm Post

kewms wrote:Attempting to get the thread *somewhat* back on track...

Scrivener is designed to make very efficient use of whatever resources are available to it. That's one of the benefits of the Scrivener approach of breaking a project into smaller chunks: Scrivener only has to load whatever you're actually editing. And the actual editing is just manipulating text -- which is very fast -- rather than the real time page layout tasks that something like Word has to do.

The most demanding tasks in Scrivener are Compiling complex documents, building a large Scrivenings session, and doing a ZIP backup of a large project. As you approach the limits of whatever hardware you're using, you're likely to see performance issues in these tasks first.

This means that Scrivener itself will run on a lot of less-than-current hardware, provided it supports a Scrivener-compatible operating system.

Katherine

Katherine, thank you. I admire your courage! And your indication of why Scrivener can work well on older systems highlights part of what's so great about it: breaking a complex project into chunks, and then being chunk-focused, while the rest of the project sits comfortably in your creative waiting room, reading your old magazines and staring at the vending machines.
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Fe
Felinfoel
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Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:35 pm Post

Ack. I didn't realise that all the forums were about the Mac, including the Windows one.

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melleesmith
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Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:53 am Post

Astaff wrote:First link - not happy with delays and lack of Android and rather than try V3 Win beta, searched others, ending up with what sounds an abysmal kludge including using actual cards that reflect chosen alternatives being missing so many Scrivener features.


Hi! I'm Mel, the author of the first post. Someone backlinked to the post in this thread which is driving traffic to my site, so I wanted to see what the discussion was about.

First - and I realize I didn't actually mention this in the post - I did try the beta. I was put off by all the warnings not to save my project in the beta or risk losing it. I didn't see the point in using the beta when the program couldn't guarantee my project would be saved securely.

Second - not trying to be precious here - I don't appreciate my writing process being called an "abysmal kludge." That's beyond rude. Might seem primitive to you, but handwritten scene cards are helpful for me. Much more helpful than Scrivener's cards, which I often forgot about and left to sit gathering dust somewhere in the binder.

Finally, as someone else here posted, different strokes for different folks. I used Scrivener for almost a year and loved it. Which you would know had you actually read the full post. Heck, even the first two lines. But I need something that works across devices, and I, like many, are tired of waiting for this update. I don't deserve to be put down for that.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.