Has Windows Version 3 Been Scrapped?

User avatar
Bradley310
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:05 am
Platform: Windows
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:42 pm Post

devinganger wrote:(emphasis added by me)
Bradley310 wrote:I think everyone has the right to come into the forums and complain that L&L isn't getting things done as fast as they should


...and this is where this is bogus.

The only people who get to decide how fast L&L *should* be getting things done is...TADA! L&L.

"Should" is a matter of personal expectations. If you're getting upset about a "should" you are holding expectations that are contrary to reality. Causes heat and friction, yes, but in the end, it's a problem with the person holding the "should" in their head. It's rude to bring those personal expectations here and vent on people.


Because no matter what company it is, people will complain. A company should expect that. Having worked in the hospitality industry for over 20 years, I know the adage that "the customer is always right' is BS. The customer is not always right, but to not allow them to air their frustration and receive some type of polite response is far worse than no response at all.

Whether you and I believe there should be no expectation is irrelevant.
Author, Podcast Producer and Host. https://bradshreve.com/

User avatar
KB
Site Admin
Posts: 20902
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:23 pm
Platform: Mac
Location: Truro, Cornwall
Contact:

Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:19 pm Post

devinganger wrote:(emphasis added by me)
Bradley310 wrote:I think everyone has the right to come into the forums and complain that L&L isn't getting things done as fast as they should


...and this is where this is bogus.

The only people who get to decide how fast L&L *should* be getting things done is...TADA! L&L.

"Should" is a matter of personal expectations. If you're getting upset about a "should" you are holding expectations that are contrary to reality. Causes heat and friction, yes, but in the end, it's a problem with the person holding the "should" in their head. It's rude to bring those personal expectations here and vent on people.


lunk wrote:
Bradley310 wrote:I think everyone has the right to come into the forums and complain that L&L isn't getting things done as fast as they should. .

And how fast is that? I didn’t know there is a predefined speed for this kind of thing.


In all fairness that's our mea culpa. With Scrivener 3 on macOS we said Windows users could expect Win3 to be out in 2018. Then our Windows developer was sure it would be ready for mid-2019. And here we are, still working towards the release. In retrospect, what we should have said was that we were working on it and had no idea whether it would take another six months or five years. Had we done so, users would have had every right to be unhappy that it was taking so long, but no right to say that it *should* be faster. As it is, for the most part - excepting the very few users who are outright rude - we have only ourselves to blame for the frustrations of Windows users. Would that it weren't so. The question is, how do we change internally to avoid these problems in the future? (That's rhetorical, by the way. :) We have a pretty good idea of a number of issues we need to address; working out how is the bigger problem.)
"You can't waltz in here, use my toaster, and start spouting universal truths without qualification."

User avatar
devinganger
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:55 pm
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: Monroe, WA 98272
Contact:

Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:52 pm Post

KB wrote:In all fairness that's our mea culpa. With Scrivener 3 on macOS we said Windows users could expect Win3 to be out in 2018. Then our Windows developer was sure it would be ready for mid-2019. And here we are, still working towards the release. In retrospect, what we should have said was that we were working on it and had no idea whether it would take another six months or five years. Had we done so, users would have had every right to be unhappy that it was taking so long, but no right to say that it *should* be faster. As it is, for the most part - excepting the very few users who are outright rude - we have only ourselves to blame for the frustrations of Windows users.


I am afraid I have to disagree with you on this one, KB. I'm in IT. I see every day how people hear what they want to hear and ignore all cautions and caveats. Yes, it is something you could have done better -- and I have faith in your ability to restructure the process to do so in the future -- but it doesn't change the fact that there is literally *no way* that you could have worded things more carefully that folks wouldn't have found to crucify you for not meeting their own expectations.
--
Devin L. Ganger
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes

User avatar
Jaysen
Posts: 6294
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:00 am
Platform: Mac + Windows
Location: East-Be-Jesus-Nowhere SC, USA

Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:32 am Post

devinganger wrote:
KB wrote:In all fairness that's our mea culpa. With Scrivener 3 on macOS we said Windows users could expect Win3 to be out in 2018. Then our Windows developer was sure it would be ready for mid-2019. And here we are, still working towards the release. In retrospect, what we should have said was that we were working on it and had no idea whether it would take another six months or five years. Had we done so, users would have had every right to be unhappy that it was taking so long, but no right to say that it *should* be faster. As it is, for the most part - excepting the very few users who are outright rude - we have only ourselves to blame for the frustrations of Windows users.


I am afraid I have to disagree with you on this one, KB. I'm in IT. I see every day how people hear what they want to hear and ignore all cautions and caveats. Yes, it is something you could have done better -- and I have faith in your ability to restructure the process to do so in the future -- but it doesn't change the fact that there is literally *no way* that you could have worded things more carefully that folks wouldn't have found to crucify you for not meeting their own expectations.

The one option that could have work was absolute silence. NDA for all users/tech support that have access. Then only announce it when you are clear on delivery date. But then you'd still have the same questions "have you abandoned Scrivener for windows?"
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

ImageImage

Ah
Ahab
Posts: 779
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Maine

Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:19 am Post

devinganger wrote:
KB wrote:In all fairness that's our mea culpa. With Scrivener 3 on macOS we said Windows users could expect Win3 to be out in 2018. Then our Windows developer was sure it would be ready for mid-2019. And here we are, still working towards the release. In retrospect, what we should have said was that we were working on it and had no idea whether it would take another six months or five years. Had we done so, users would have had every right to be unhappy that it was taking so long, but no right to say that it *should* be faster. As it is, for the most part - excepting the very few users who are outright rude - we have only ourselves to blame for the frustrations of Windows users.


I am afraid I have to disagree with you on this one, KB. I'm in IT. I see every day how people hear what they want to hear and ignore all cautions and caveats. Yes, it is something you could have done better -- and I have faith in your ability to restructure the process to do so in the future -- but it doesn't change the fact that there is literally *no way* that you could have worded things more carefully that folks wouldn't have found to crucify you for not meeting their own expectations.


There's a worldwide plague of pessimists. To burgle a good line from George Bernard Shaw, "A pessimist thinks everybody is as nasty as himself, and hates them for it."

User avatar
garpu
Posts: 2071
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:38 pm
Platform: Linux

Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:34 pm Post

Jaysen wrote:The one option that could have work was absolute silence. NDA for all users/tech support that have access. Then only announce it when you are clear on delivery date. But then you'd still have the same questions "have you abandoned Scrivener for windows?"


I can see why some places use closed betas and NDA's for everything, including bathroom breaks.
Slackware-current 64-bit, XFCE

Pr
Prometheus
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:07 pm
Platform: Windows

Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:13 pm Post

Kinsey wrote:
Prometheus wrote:
Your last update on the blog for WinV3 was almost a year ago. I think that's simply too long a period without updates, and going forward, I hope you reconsider the time gap between them. Thank you.


https://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog ... tus-update


OK, for those people who can't grasp this in context: the last update on WinV3 BEFORE THIS ONE was almost a year ago.

User avatar
pigfender
Posts: 2912
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:25 am
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: I share a head with a great many personalities
Contact:

Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:48 pm Post

Prometheus wrote:OK, for those people who can't grasp this in context: the last update on WinV3 BEFORE THIS ONE was almost a year ago.

Thanks!
http://www.pigfender.com | http://www.novelinaday.com
"Some dice only have sixes." nom, 19 Oct 2013
Image Image

Ki
Kinsey
Posts: 436
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:06 pm
Platform: Mac + Windows

Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:55 pm Post

Prometheus wrote:
OK, for those people who can't grasp this in context: the last update on WinV3 BEFORE THIS ONE was almost a year ago.


My post was intended for information, I read yours as having missed the update.

wi
winston_wolf
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:27 am
Platform: Windows

Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:02 am Post

With the caveat that I'm happy with v1.9 & I understand development takes as long as it takes & L&L is (understandably, can't make everyone happy etc.) conservative in whether to give estimates/updates, etc.,
Is the official estimate of v3 delivery in 2020 still good (say, 80% chance)?
Thanks.

User avatar
pigfender
Posts: 2912
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:25 am
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: I share a head with a great many personalities
Contact:

Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:55 am Post

winston_wolf wrote:With the caveat that I'm happy with v1.9 & I understand development takes as long as it takes & L&L is (understandably, can't make everyone happy etc.) conservative in whether to give estimates/updates, etc.,
Is the official estimate of v3 delivery in 2020 still good (say, 80% chance)?
Thanks.

Unfortunately, unless the whole planet is prepared to accept your stipulation also applies to them, I’d be surprised if this was sufficient incentive for LL to officially confirm any delivery estimate. :)

My suggestion is that you look at the logs / reports for the latest Release Candidate in the beta forum and make your own judgement.
http://www.pigfender.com | http://www.novelinaday.com
"Some dice only have sixes." nom, 19 Oct 2013
Image Image

ji
jimmypete
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:34 am
Platform: Windows

Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:32 pm Post

I'm just using 1.9 and workarounds in other programs and online formatting services to get my job done. I'm not going to fool around with betas, don't need the hassle. At this point, I'm not sure I'll trust the initial release of v3 enough to risk my work on it. Seems like a confused mess.

User avatar
Daniela Wolfe
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:53 pm
Platform: Linux + Windows
Location: Utah

Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:40 pm Post

devinganger wrote:I'm in IT. I see every day how people hear what they want to hear and ignore all cautions and caveats.


That problem is not unique to IT. I worked retail for years and it was something I ran into on pretty much a daily basis. :wink:
Have a deliciously demented day,

Image