Has Windows Version 3 Been Scrapped?

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kewms
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Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:16 pm Post

Ahem. Please do not feed the trolls.

If you are not sure who the trolls are in this conversation, please consider that it might be you, and cut it out.

Katherine
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StarDog2
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Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:50 pm Post

kewms wrote:Ahem. Please do not feed the trolls.

If you are not sure who the trolls are in this conversation, please consider that it might be you, and cut it out.

Katherine


Oh! be still my trollish heart! I've been outed!

KC
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Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:02 pm Post

Here is what L&L currently says about Windows Version 3:

"Scrivener 3: in the Works
We're currently hard at work on Scrivener 3 for Windows (yes, we're skipping a number!). If you buy now, you'll get a free update to Scrivener 3 when it's available."

Note the use of the word "when", not "if". Sounds like a commitment.

But they also say:

"Disclaimer: Please make your decision to buy based on the current version of Scrivener (Scrivener 1 for Windows). This offer is a bonus for new users. We can make no guarantees on when Scrivener 3 for Windows will be available (we only release software when we are confident it is stable and the best it can be), and buyers of Scrivener 1 for Windows will not be eligible for a refund in the unlikely event that something happens to prevent Scrivener 3’s release."

So L&L actively promotes version 3 in order to sell version 1, but the fine print says you might never get a version good enough for release.

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kewms
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Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:28 pm Post

Actually, the fine print says that you are not entitled to a refund if, say, an asteroid wipes out Cornwall. (L&L world headquarters.) Every company on the planet includes this kind of disclaimer.

Katherine
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theswede
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:42 am Post

canlin05 wrote:I've seen numerous posts on Reddit about people dumping Scrivener for other tools that seem better able to offer updated products to their users.


What tools are those? I am genuinely curious here. Links to the posts are fine.
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lunk
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:35 pm Post

entheo wrote:Here are some of the information I found:

Would you mind summarizing?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

Tr
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:11 pm Post

I only opened one of those links. It's "Why Scrivener sucks for writing your novel" brought to you by the people trying to sell you something called Novelize, which I never heard of before. The anti-Scrivener screed has nothing to do with Scriv 3 for Windows not being released fast enough for anyone, but is all about how Scrivener is too complicated for all us dummies.

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devinganger
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:31 pm Post

There were a couple of links in there where people explained why Scrivener didn't fit their writing process, and those were good.

Yet for the most part, all of the supplied links were filled with factual errors from people who have unrealistic expectations about what software does.
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Um
Umina
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:07 am Post

No way. This stuff happens in the software industry. My guess is they got hung up with the tools or their documentation but Scrivener is a complex ground breaking product - which is why we keep coming back here to see where things are.

Remember the worst platform for software development is Windows - any version. The registry! The virtual memory (partly Intels fault because they think they are doing something "new" every time they reinvent technology Digital Equipment had 50 years ago. Windows dev. looks great at the seminars but the performance is awful.

Then there's the "documentation", and the illogical values you can set but never clear, and let's not get into updates. If Scrivener gets V3 to work on Windows they should get a medal, even two.

We've had Windows for 50 years and suffered with a paradigm driven only by better hardware enduring 10,000 "updates", bug fixes, patches, knowledge base articles, and support so incompetent you wonder where they dug up the bodies. There's a reason Gates got into medicine.

In the meantime if you need to get going buy an old MAC and upgrade it. It's cheap and believe it or not a 2011 MAC with its i5 and a couple 2TB SSDs screams.(DVD morphed into the second SSD).

My guess is the developers are working really hard, but its like trying to land on the deck of an air craft carrier in high seas. You have no idea where the deck will be in 20 minutes when you get where you thought you needed to be 30 minutes ago.

Let's cut LL some slack. We've had COVID crap for almost 8 months and NOTHING IS ON SCHEDULE. So let's not sweat the small stuff. Promises before COVID are not fair game. (I have no financial interest in anything mentioned or their competitors.).

/Len

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devinganger
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:15 am Post

Umina wrote:We've had Windows for 50 years


Windows 1.0 was released in November of 1985. That's not 1970.

Windows 3.0 was released in 1990. That's also not 1970.

Windows NT 3.1 was released in 1993, and that is arguably the start of the modern Windows lineage. Still not 1970.

Umina wrote:In the meantime if you need to get going buy an old MAC and upgrade it. It's cheap and believe it or not a 2011 MAC with its i5 and a couple 2TB SSDs screams.(DVD morphed into the second SSD).


My 2011 Mac does not scream, even with an SSD-ectomy. I frequently do, however, waiting for slow OS updates.

But don't let little things like facts get in the way of your little rant...
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Jaysen
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:27 am Post

Xerox Alto... 1972. It is the foundation of modern user interfaces. OS-X, all Linux variants, and windows are based on Alto concepts.

1973 also saw the x-net protocol developed to support alto. X-net was foundational to a little thing know as TCP/IP. Then there’s the mouse to navigate Alto. Also the concepts of GUI navigation like icons, forward, back, and tabs.

So yeah. The “new” tech has been around a LOOOOOONG time. Still agree with Devin though. The MS Windows nightmare is not common to all windowing systems and is a bit new than the graphical UI.
Jaysen

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pigfender
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:57 am Post

So there are these two friends, Kev and Leon. Kev and Leon are both excellent chefs, but they live in different countries so have access to completely different stuff.

One day, Kev invented this fantastic recipe for a completely new dish. Let’s call it Ratatouille. It was incredibly popular, but it was only available in Kev’s own country - the UK. Leon had visited the UK and tried this wonderful dish and, being a talented chef in his own country (Australia) struck up an agreement with Kev to make Ratatouille for Australia.

The trouble is, Ratatouille requires certain ingredients or it’s not Ratatouille — or at least it’s not Kev’s incredibly popular and beloved Ratatouille. And unfortunately, those ingredients aren’t readily available in Australia. So in order to make Ratatouille for Australia, Leon first needed to source the ingredients. In some cases this meant taking the tomatoes that *were* available in Oz and selectively breeding them to create an appropriate strain for the dish. In some cases, Leon had to do extreme research at a scientific level of genetic modification to completely reinvent a courgette that would grow in the Australian climate. And trust me, you don’t want to get Leon started on the subject of aubergines!

Of course, this was just one of many challenges. You see, while the UK is a relatively homogeneous climate and so Kev’s Ratatouille for UK ‘just works’ for all UK areas, Australia is incredibly diverse with climates ranging from the modern metropolis of Sydney, the salt plains surrounding Perth and the baked outback of the Northern Territories, and not much but that common brand of Australia that connects them. Creating a version of Ratatouille for Australia that works in all those settings, with ingredients that can be made to work in those local climates, and without creating potentially harmful or toxic reactions was incredibly difficult.

So somewhat unsurprisingly for those in the know, Ratatouille for Australia took a long time to get right, because the one thing that Kev and Leon not only knew but insisted on was that they weren’t prepared to sell Ratatouille for Australia to a single person until they were satisfied that it was absolutely ready.

Through all of this, no one was more keen to see the Ratatouille for Australia finished and available than Kev and Leon, not even the great many people in Australia who were keen to buy it!

The good news was, while all this was going on, Kev and Leon had actually already produced a version of Ratatouille for Australia that, while not based on the latest version of Kev’s Ratatouille for UK, was still a safe, delicious and incredibly satisfying version of Ratatouille for Australia that was an excellent version of the recipe that made Kev and his Ratatouille famous in the first place. So, really, while everyone was super excited for when the latest version would be available in Oz, people were all super happy and nice and understanding.

Because it was in *everyone’s* interest for OzRat3 to be properly cooked before it was served.
http://www.pigfender.com | http://www.novelinaday.com
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:31 pm Post

pigfender wrote:Because it was in *everyone’s* interest for OzRat3 to be properly cooked before it was served.

Yeah, I was wondering whether that parable was going to have K&L serve an incompletely prepared rendition gratis for nearly three years, let alone an improperly cooked one.

Safer to say that this show is taking an exceptionally long time in previews before it is deemed ready for Broadway or West End. Worth the wait, and well worth a few rough edges for those unwilling to wait.

Edit: Call it just the West End run in previews. Great seats now for those prepared to take an extended visit to The Apple!

Cheers - Jerome

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theswede
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:34 pm Post

Jaysen wrote:Xerox Alto... 1972. It is the foundation of modern user interfaces. OS-X, all Linux variants, and windows are based on Alto concepts


That was The Mother Of All Demos, by Doug Engelbart, in 1968. He demo'd virtual conferencing, window systems using a mouse, real time collaborative editing, revision control, dynamic linking, all manner of things which then slowly got re-invented by others. Including Alto.
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