The problem I have with using a Beta of version 3 is this:
I don't have confidence that Literature and Latte won't just up and decide to be a Mac only company. They've said (many years ago) that Scrivener will always be a primarily Mac program, and they've been true to that in past years.
I like the product. Don't get me wrong, but I had to quit using it because of a bug in the way it handles images, and the stuff I was writing at the time had lots of images.
If you remember, there was also a Linux version at one point, which I used too. But sadly, they stopped development of the Linux version.
My point of all this is that I'm reluctant to invest time in learning to use Scrivener as a Beta (all over again) when I don't see that they actually have a commitment to the Windows platform. The fact that they have been working on this literally for years tells me that they either aren't serious about supporting Windows, don't have the talent to do the work (which I doubt is actually the case), or have themselves boxed into a corner software-wise so it's nearly impossible to Scrivener cross-compatible. Since the original software was Mac only, I suspect that the "corner" idea is probably the correct issue here and another reason I would expect them to just decide to not support Windows at some point.
Would so LOVE to see Scrivener 3 for Windows during the Coronavirus Shutdown
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devinganger
- Posts: 2038
- Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:55 pm
- Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
- Location: Monroe, WA 98272 (CN97au)
- Contact:
1) If Scrivener on Windows doesn't work for you. don't use it. Simple and easy. Letting L&L know why (politely as you seem to have done) is cool.
2) If you're worried about the future of Scrivener for Windows, then go download the beta (which is in Release Candidate stage) and check it out. The Windows side is always going to lag a little behind the Mac side because the Mac side has a huge leg up by using functionality that is baked into the MacOS environment. Some of this core functionality has to be replicated by third-party programming toolkits (Qt) or by the (two) Windows devs writing it themselves before they can then write the Scrivener code that consumes that functionality. But seriously, a lot of the work has been done and the current beta is far closer to the released Mac version than has ever been the case in the past.
3) Scrivener for iOS also suffers from a gap in functionality because iOS doesn't have the same functionality as macOS. This iOS gap is much larger at this time.
4) I mentioned in point 2 that there are two Windows developers. On Mac, there is only one. They are literally doubling the amount of investment into Windows that they put into Mac.
5) The Linux version was a side-part of the Windows version, and from what I understand it was a bit of a support drain that took focus away. There is a long thread where L&L talk about why they aren't supporting it any more. Those reasons don't apply to Windows.
2) If you're worried about the future of Scrivener for Windows, then go download the beta (which is in Release Candidate stage) and check it out. The Windows side is always going to lag a little behind the Mac side because the Mac side has a huge leg up by using functionality that is baked into the MacOS environment. Some of this core functionality has to be replicated by third-party programming toolkits (Qt) or by the (two) Windows devs writing it themselves before they can then write the Scrivener code that consumes that functionality. But seriously, a lot of the work has been done and the current beta is far closer to the released Mac version than has ever been the case in the past.
3) Scrivener for iOS also suffers from a gap in functionality because iOS doesn't have the same functionality as macOS. This iOS gap is much larger at this time.
4) I mentioned in point 2 that there are two Windows developers. On Mac, there is only one. They are literally doubling the amount of investment into Windows that they put into Mac.
5) The Linux version was a side-part of the Windows version, and from what I understand it was a bit of a support drain that took focus away. There is a long thread where L&L talk about why they aren't supporting it any more. Those reasons don't apply to Windows.
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes
Maybe I'm crazy, but the 3.0 Beta seems pretty fully featured already. I don't use the mac version, so I don't know where it stands in terms of feature parity, but it seems leaps and bounds ahead of the 1.9 version. I'm not sure why they wouldn't just release it as is and continue to do feature enhancements and bug fixes. I haven't really experienced any breaking bugs, and most issues can probably be worked around at this point.
It also seems to be the most fully featured option on windows at the moment.
Honestly, I'd just like to stop having to update every few weeks.
It also seems to be the most fully featured option on windows at the moment.
Honestly, I'd just like to stop having to update every few weeks.
Honestly, I'd just like to stop having to update every few weeks
If they released it you’d still have to update it every few weeks as they work out the remaining bugs.
I guess you could decline to update but you’d be running a version with a long(ish) list of bugs.
The update is 5 minutes max every 2-4 weeks. I waste more time than that every two weeks just wondering if a 4th coffee for the day is going too far.
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Jaysen
- Posts: 6235
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- Platform: Mac + Windows
- Location: East-Be-Jesus-Nowhere SC, USA
Astaff wrote: I waste more time than that every two weeks just wondering if a 4th coffee for the day is going too far.
I can save you a few minutes... than answer is NEVER "no". The 4th cup of coffee is home to the voices that start asking where cup 5 and 6 are coming from. They will write your book for you once they are appeased with the consumption of the afore mentioned cups.
Wait... I guess I'm assuming you and I drink the same kind of "coffee". A French press with extra dark roast. Hot rum/whiskey (avoid vodka or tequila (I speak from EXPERIENCE)) goes in. Wait a few minutes. Consume!
I recommend preparing food while waiting for the coffee to be made, You won't be able to very very shortly after the first cup goes down
Jaysen
I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09
I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09
Before I proceed with my disgruntlement, please allow me to explain WHY I'm disgruntled.
I lead a writers group for four years from Jan 2015 through Jan 2019. In 2015, a gentleman showed me Scrivener on his Macbook, and a year later he was demonstrating it's interoperability with Aeon Timeline. As I was struggling with some complicated date-related plot twists, I saw it as a key solution to my woes.
I downloaded the evaluation copy on January 25, 2016.
I did enough research to learn that Windows Aeon Timeline and Windows Scrivener would not work together until Windows Scrivener 3 came out.
Thus, I made my decision to purchase Scrivener late November, 2017, based on L&L's promise of it being ready in the Spring of 2018. I used my Christmas money (yes, literally) to purchase both the latest copy of Scrivener along with Aeon Timeline on Jan 19, 2018.
The promised release period came and went. By December of 2018, you were claiming "Q2 of 2019."
That date came and went.
Now you're saying Windows 3 beta is out, but as I'm a writer, not a software developer or tester, I'm leery of running it.
Does it sync with Aeon Timeline, yet? Or must I wait another 2-1/2 years for you to deliver on what I purchased 2-1/2 years ago?
I'm a very patient person. After all, it has been 2-1/2 years.
However, I'm 57 and not getting any younger.
I welcome a more detailed and definitive status on the Scrivener 3 for Windows project, including Aeon Time interoperability, as well as an accurate (hard) release date.
In the meantime, I've started on the fourth of a five-novel series. Would have been nice if I'd been able to thank Scrivener in the Forward, but alas, I had to make do with workarounds in Excel and Word.
Thank you for your time.
I lead a writers group for four years from Jan 2015 through Jan 2019. In 2015, a gentleman showed me Scrivener on his Macbook, and a year later he was demonstrating it's interoperability with Aeon Timeline. As I was struggling with some complicated date-related plot twists, I saw it as a key solution to my woes.
I downloaded the evaluation copy on January 25, 2016.
I did enough research to learn that Windows Aeon Timeline and Windows Scrivener would not work together until Windows Scrivener 3 came out.
Thus, I made my decision to purchase Scrivener late November, 2017, based on L&L's promise of it being ready in the Spring of 2018. I used my Christmas money (yes, literally) to purchase both the latest copy of Scrivener along with Aeon Timeline on Jan 19, 2018.
The promised release period came and went. By December of 2018, you were claiming "Q2 of 2019."
That date came and went.
Now you're saying Windows 3 beta is out, but as I'm a writer, not a software developer or tester, I'm leery of running it.
Does it sync with Aeon Timeline, yet? Or must I wait another 2-1/2 years for you to deliver on what I purchased 2-1/2 years ago?
I'm a very patient person. After all, it has been 2-1/2 years.
However, I'm 57 and not getting any younger.
I welcome a more detailed and definitive status on the Scrivener 3 for Windows project, including Aeon Time interoperability, as well as an accurate (hard) release date.
In the meantime, I've started on the fourth of a five-novel series. Would have been nice if I'd been able to thank Scrivener in the Forward, but alas, I had to make do with workarounds in Excel and Word.
Thank you for your time.
The best way to determine the status of Windows Scrivener 3 is to evaluate the current beta, which you can find here:
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=40621
The best way to determine whether Win Scrivener 3 (beta) will interoperate with Aeon Timeline is to test it. The second best way is to ask Aeon Timeline's support team: we have no control over third party software.
For reasons which have become obvious over the last couple of years, we will not be announcing the Window Scrivener 3 release in advance. When it is ready, we'll release it.
Katherine
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=40621
The best way to determine whether Win Scrivener 3 (beta) will interoperate with Aeon Timeline is to test it. The second best way is to ask Aeon Timeline's support team: we have no control over third party software.
For reasons which have become obvious over the last couple of years, we will not be announcing the Window Scrivener 3 release in advance. When it is ready, we'll release it.
Katherine
Scrivener Support Team
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devinganger
- Posts: 2038
- Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:55 pm
- Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
- Location: Monroe, WA 98272 (CN97au)
- Contact:
Swamper wrote:I did enough research to learn that Windows Aeon Timeline and Windows Scrivener would not work together until Windows Scrivener 3 came out.
This part surprises me. It's been a while since I've used Aeon Timeline -- they had just revamped their version and taken away functionality I used, so I stopped using it -- but last I knew it worked just fine with Scrivener 1.9.x. Are you sure that it won't work with it now?
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes
agvaravin wrote:Good afternoon. Please let us know whether the beta version of Scrivener 3 will work after 15.07.2020 or will there be a new release?. There is no backward compatibility and my work may be lost
If you search on any of the many, many threads where people have asked that same question, you will find that L&L have always released another RC prior to the expiry date.
Not being nasty, but if you have the concern there might not be one released, why on earth would you consign work that ‘may be lost’ to the RC?
agvaravin wrote:Good afternoon. Please let us know whether the beta version of Scrivener 3 will work after 15.07.2020 or will there be a new release?. There is no backward compatibility and my work may be lost
Hi there.
A new release will be released. They've been doing so for quite some time without fail, and it's expected that they will keep on doing it for the foreseable future. Upgrading from within the program it's quite easy and normally keeps your settings and preferences.
I'm starting to think she's never gonna release that version 3.
I can fully understand the development difficulties, the unforeseen, the lack of staff or any other reason but there are two points that are becoming more and more ridiculous:
1. The lack of communication.
The last date we had was August 31, 2019. That's almost a whole year ago and we have no news except a poor exit estimate like we have had for the last 3 years.
A year ago, the team estimated that it was ready to go out at the end of August. There was an unforeseen event, I understand it, but this problem still hasn't been solved after a year? Excuse me but what is taking so long?
2. Perfection becomes persistence.
I am the first to understand this feeling of bringing out a perfect product. Everyone here understands it, we have the same thing with the books we want to publish. We refuse to publish it because it can be improved, it can have the idea that will make a difference.
But just like a novel, you have to make up your mind to release it at some point. Again, I understand that you want a bug-free program but I'll share a scoop with you: there will be bugs. You'll have to spend all the time on it, we'll end up finding bugs (minor or major) and you'll have to patch it. It's like that in any program.
I salute your perfectionism but if all companies had to take 3 years to perfect their program, the computer world would evolve very slowly. You don't realize how your perfectionism ends up harming your image after 3 years.
As I said earlier, you absolutely must COMMUNICATE and decide to EXIT Scrivener 3.
If you still have such a big problem after 3 years, I think it is time to question yourself and ask for external development aid. I think you earn enough money with Scrivener to hire someone who can help you for a few months.
In any event, I hope that 2020 will finally be the year in which Scrivener 3 comes out. The more time passes, the more I think we will see Scrivener 4 for Mac before Scrivener 3 for Windows.
I wish good luck to the whole team.
I can fully understand the development difficulties, the unforeseen, the lack of staff or any other reason but there are two points that are becoming more and more ridiculous:
1. The lack of communication.
The last date we had was August 31, 2019. That's almost a whole year ago and we have no news except a poor exit estimate like we have had for the last 3 years.
A year ago, the team estimated that it was ready to go out at the end of August. There was an unforeseen event, I understand it, but this problem still hasn't been solved after a year? Excuse me but what is taking so long?
2. Perfection becomes persistence.
I am the first to understand this feeling of bringing out a perfect product. Everyone here understands it, we have the same thing with the books we want to publish. We refuse to publish it because it can be improved, it can have the idea that will make a difference.
But just like a novel, you have to make up your mind to release it at some point. Again, I understand that you want a bug-free program but I'll share a scoop with you: there will be bugs. You'll have to spend all the time on it, we'll end up finding bugs (minor or major) and you'll have to patch it. It's like that in any program.
I salute your perfectionism but if all companies had to take 3 years to perfect their program, the computer world would evolve very slowly. You don't realize how your perfectionism ends up harming your image after 3 years.
As I said earlier, you absolutely must COMMUNICATE and decide to EXIT Scrivener 3.
If you still have such a big problem after 3 years, I think it is time to question yourself and ask for external development aid. I think you earn enough money with Scrivener to hire someone who can help you for a few months.
In any event, I hope that 2020 will finally be the year in which Scrivener 3 comes out. The more time passes, the more I think we will see Scrivener 4 for Mac before Scrivener 3 for Windows.
I wish good luck to the whole team.
Yes, please, more communication, at least! Because you don't say anything, you leave your customers free to assume all manner of unflattering things about you that may or may not be true (we don't know! You won't tell us!).
Right now, the prevailing assumptions seem to be that either you are absurdly perfectionist in a misguided attempt to deliver the "best product possible," in contrast to other companies that rush out buggy products (and in turn showing why companies don't take your approach), or you're just incompetent.
Sorry to be blunt, I'm not saying either of those are true, but that's the feeling you're leaving people with. If people knew what was happening, had any sense of progress (from this forum, apparently even the beta testers don't now, because to them it seems like it should be a finished product), maybe things would be different.
Staying silent is doing nothing but eroding customer trust.
Personally, whatever features are missing or tiny little bugs are still in the program, you're not doing yourselves any favors by holding it back at this point. Just release it and deal with whatever's left as it comes up, and tell people to keep backups of their work (like they should be doing anyway). Heck, I don't use the Mac version! I won't know what features are missing!
Right now, the prevailing assumptions seem to be that either you are absurdly perfectionist in a misguided attempt to deliver the "best product possible," in contrast to other companies that rush out buggy products (and in turn showing why companies don't take your approach), or you're just incompetent.
Sorry to be blunt, I'm not saying either of those are true, but that's the feeling you're leaving people with. If people knew what was happening, had any sense of progress (from this forum, apparently even the beta testers don't now, because to them it seems like it should be a finished product), maybe things would be different.
Staying silent is doing nothing but eroding customer trust.
Personally, whatever features are missing or tiny little bugs are still in the program, you're not doing yourselves any favors by holding it back at this point. Just release it and deal with whatever's left as it comes up, and tell people to keep backups of their work (like they should be doing anyway). Heck, I don't use the Mac version! I won't know what features are missing!