Reduced Cross-Platform Support

User avatar
DavidR
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:21 am
Platform: Windows

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:44 pm Post

George Williams wrote:Yes this is extremely frustrating and fare beyond the point of overpromising. After a while it just becomes a straight out lie to lure people to buy something that never gets delivered....
Also there is no still no releasedate which only means one thing: They have no clue how far they are.from delivering.
Nonsense excuse is that it is policy not to mention delivery dates, but that is just a euphemism for repeating they have no clue when to deliver.
I can't recall suppliers ever being this uncommitted to delivering on promise.

From what I have seen in 35 years or so of using (not creating) PC software, there are 4 possibilities regarding release dates:
  1. You work diligently and promise a firm release date. The night before the release date, elves who are capable of producing software code with no unexpected problems come in and finish the project. You meet the release date. Users love you.
  2. You work diligently and promise a firm release date. The elves don't show up, but gremlins do. You are committed to the release date, so you release the software with known bugs still in place. Users hate you.
  3. You work diligently and promise a firm release date. No elves, just gremlins. You refuse to release buggy or not-fully-functional software, so you miss the release date and set another one, which you also miss. Users hate you.
  4. You work diligently, but (perhaps having been burned by #3) you decline to promise a release date. Gremlins appear. It takes longer than you ever imagined. Users hate you. But when you finally do release it, it works near-flawlessly. Users claim they always loved you.
It would indeed be a lie if they actually never released the product. There is zero reason to expect that to happen.
David
Scrivener for Windows Version 1.9.9
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit

What's the difference between a free lance and a loose cannon?

User avatar
lunk
Posts: 4237
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:24 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Sweden 64° N

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:30 pm Post

George Williams wrote:I can't recall suppliers ever being this uncommitted to delivering on promise.
So what did L&L promise you? And when?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

Ge
George Williams
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:33 pm
Platform: Mac

Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:41 pm Post

lunk wrote:So what did L&L promise you? And when?


Early 2019 and updated the page August 2019.

They sell a bundle in which they had promised that you could upgrade to version 3 when it would be available.
The latter will never happen. Probably not before version 4 is available and definately not in a reasonable period (years is not reasonable).

You pay for the fact thay you can have the software available on two platforms.
Currently this fraudulant offering is still being made; Bundle for 85 and mac version for 53.
You pay 32 euros extra for absolutely nothing as the two versions are incompatable and the windows version is of no use when you also use the mac version.

L&L should reimburese buyers of bundles for the amount they paid too much, as L&L have not delivered the value that customer reasonably could expect from it, and they know it as the versions are incompatible.

See also:

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/stor ... ab=Bundles


https://www.literatureandlatte.com/intr ... crivener-3

User avatar
kewms
Posts: 6563
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:22 pm
Platform: Mac

Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:13 pm Post

"Never" is a long time.

The status updates in the beta forum demonstrate steady progress toward a releasable version of Windows Scrivener 3.

If you would like a refund, you are welcome to contact our sales team, here:
https://www.literatureandlatte.com/contact-us

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

je
jesuslpgc
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:48 pm
Platform: Mac

Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:43 am Post

DavidR wrote:
George Williams wrote:Yes this is extremely frustrating and fare beyond the point of overpromising. After a while it just becomes a straight out lie to lure people to buy something that never gets delivered....
Also there is no still no releasedate which only means one thing: They have no clue how far they are.from delivering.
Nonsense excuse is that it is policy not to mention delivery dates, but that is just a euphemism for repeating they have no clue when to deliver.
I can't recall suppliers ever being this uncommitted to delivering on promise.

From what I have seen in 35 years or so of using (not creating) PC software, there are 4 possibilities regarding release dates:
  1. You work diligently and promise a firm release date. The night before the release date, elves who are capable of producing software code with no unexpected problems come in and finish the project. You meet the release date. Users love you.
  2. You work diligently and promise a firm release date. The elves don't show up, but gremlins do. You are committed to the release date, so you release the software with known bugs still in place. Users hate you.
  3. You work diligently and promise a firm release date. No elves, just gremlins. You refuse to release buggy or not-fully-functional software, so you miss the release date and set another one, which you also miss. Users hate you.
  4. You work diligently, but (perhaps having been burned by #3) you decline to promise a release date. Gremlins appear. It takes longer than you ever imagined. Users hate you. But when you finally do release it, it works near-flawlessly. Users claim they always loved you.
It would indeed be a lie if they actually never released the product. There is zero reason to expect that to happen.


4b. You release your product with flaws. Your clients ask you to please put a remedy to those flaws. You ignore them and ask you support team to ignore the posts concerning those flaws. It's amazing the Mac V3 Spanish menu (and I think the German one aswell) still got many items yet to be localized. That a Spanish user has to use a dictionary in order to understand the functions of a program that's supposedly in his native language and that you contact the company, write forum posts and nobody gives and damn.

I also noticed the same issue in the Spanish Windows beta, offered some suggestions, and was told not to worry that localization was done at the end, only to find months later that L&L had the same issues in a product already released years ago. Well at least in that aspect Windows and Mac versions are fully compatible!!!! :twisted:

User avatar
kewms
Posts: 6563
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:22 pm
Platform: Mac

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:41 am Post

Have you reported the Spanish localization issues through our support system? We try to keep a close eye on the forums, but posts here don't connect to our internal tracking system.

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/contact-us

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

Am
Amcmo

Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:31 am Post

You pay for the fact thay you can have the software available on two platforms.
Currently this fraudulant offering is still being made; Bundle for 85 and mac version for 53.


The offering CLEARLY states when V 3 is available. Everyone with a modicum of intelligence, or lack of bullshit axe to grind can easily see V3 is pushing at the gate to get out, with all the features the Mac version has gained during the development.

I don’t know where you are based, but accusations of fraud when there is clear evidence to the contrary is actionable, though I suspect the L&L team just shake their heads and get back to working on the last remaining bugs. Instead of blowing hard and making clearly false accusations, perhaps pull you head in and even start using the beta.

While I’m sure L&L would not make the claim, for the vast majority of us the beta is a fully useable program that other companies may well have stuck a version 1.0 label on and released it with the list of known bugs.

Seeing as you have a fixation on that 1.0 label just tell yourself that’s what it is, install it, get on with your writing and lay off the B/S Accusations.

je
jesuslpgc
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:48 pm
Platform: Mac

Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:22 am Post

Amcmo wrote:
You pay for the fact thay you can have the software available on two platforms.
Currently this fraudulant offering is still being made; Bundle for 85 and mac version for 53.


The offering CLEARLY states when V 3 is available. Everyone with a modicum of intelligence, or lack of bullshit axe to grind can easily see V3 is pushing at the gate to get out, with all the features the Mac version has gained during the development.

I don’t know where you are based, but accusations of fraud when there is clear evidence to the contrary is actionable, though I suspect the L&L team just shake their heads and get back to working on the last remaining bugs. Instead of blowing hard and making clearly false accusations, perhaps pull you head in and even start using the beta.

While I’m sure L&L would not make the claim, for the vast majority of us the beta is a fully useable program that other companies may well have stuck a version 1.0 label on and released it with the list of known bugs.

Seeing as you have a fixation on that 1.0 label just tell yourself that’s what it is, install it, get on with your writing and lay off the B/S Accusations.


Poor guy is venting his anger and you're racking him up against the coals. He paid for what he expected would be a product and a compatibility that would be coming shortly, He committed a mistake. He got lost in the triumphant literature of L&L or whatever: let him be!!! Let L&L defend themselves. Follow your own piece of advice: stop your BS!!!!

Am
Amcmo

Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:11 pm Post

stop your BS!!!!


Point to one single word of bs...

User avatar
Daniela Wolfe
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:53 pm
Platform: Linux + Windows
Location: Utah

Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:36 pm Post

jesuslpgc wrote:
Amcmo wrote:
You pay for the fact thay you can have the software available on two platforms.
Currently this fraudulant offering is still being made; Bundle for 85 and mac version for 53.


The offering CLEARLY states when V 3 is available. Everyone with a modicum of intelligence, or lack of bullshit axe to grind can easily see V3 is pushing at the gate to get out, with all the features the Mac version has gained during the development.

I don’t know where you are based, but accusations of fraud when there is clear evidence to the contrary is actionable, though I suspect the L&L team just shake their heads and get back to working on the last remaining bugs. Instead of blowing hard and making clearly false accusations, perhaps pull you head in and even start using the beta.

While I’m sure L&L would not make the claim, for the vast majority of us the beta is a fully useable program that other companies may well have stuck a version 1.0 label on and released it with the list of known bugs.

Seeing as you have a fixation on that 1.0 label just tell yourself that’s what it is, install it, get on with your writing and lay off the B/S Accusations.


Poor guy is venting his anger and you're racking him up against the coals. He paid for what he expected would be a product and a compatibility that would be coming shortly, He committed a mistake. He got lost in the triumphant literature of L&L or whatever: let him be!!! Let L&L defend themselves. Follow your own piece of advice: stop your BS!!!!


Let's not split hairs, Amcmo responded to a hostile post with hostility, that doesn't make them a bully. It doesn't mean they're in the right, but it certainly doesn't make them the instigator. I think they could stand to tone down their responses, but I also understand where they are coming from.

Venting a frustration and making baseless accusations of fraud are two very different things. It's okay if someone is frustrated. Hell, I'm frustrated, but I also happen to sympathize with Literature and Latte's predicament as I understand how the development process works, due to a background in IT.

Yes, development has taken longer than expected, but guess what? You have a full-functional feature rich and very stable 1.9.X release that works very well. Sure it lacks a few bells and whistles, but it's still a fine piece of software that does what it was intended to very well. Failing that you have a beta that's pretty damned stable and is cross compatible with the Mac version. I would urge any of the naysayers to read the posts from those defending the developers and do some research. before making these kind of accusations.

You would think a bunch of writers of all people would be more sympathetic. How many of you have been plagued by writer's block and/or missed a deadline?
Have a deliciously demented day,

Image

je
jesuslpgc
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:48 pm
Platform: Mac

Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:55 pm Post

Daniela Wolfe wrote:
You would think a bunch of writers of all people would be more sympathetic. How many of you have been plagued by writer's block and/or missed a deadline?


In my experience, writers are one of thethe most miserable, sneaky, lowest life forms known to man. And let's not get started with some subspecies like journalists, or scholars....

User avatar
r6d2
Posts: 738
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:50 pm
Platform: Mac + Windows

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:35 am Post

jesuslpgc wrote:
Daniela Wolfe wrote:
You would think a bunch of writers of all people would be more sympathetic. How many of you have been plagued by writer's block and/or missed a deadline?


In my experience, writers are one of thethe most miserable, sneaky, lowest life forms known to man. And let's not get started with some subspecies like journalists, or scholars....

Oh, man, you made my day. :D This sentence is so good for a particular character in my novel. I'm taking it with me! :)

Thanks!
r6d2

Beware of realism when writing. Avoid the usual zoo inhabitants. Summon the unicorns and the tritons, and give them reality!
--Julio Cortázar

je
jesuslpgc
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:48 pm
Platform: Mac

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:11 pm Post

r6d2 wrote:
jesuslpgc wrote:
Daniela Wolfe wrote:
You would think a bunch of writers of all people would be more sympathetic. How many of you have been plagued by writer's block and/or missed a deadline?


In my experience, writers are one of thethe most miserable, sneaky, lowest life forms known to man. And let's not get started with some subspecies like journalists, or scholars....

Oh, man, you made my day. :D This sentence is so good for a particular character in my novel. I'm taking it with me! :)

Thanks!



Please do so with my blessings.

User avatar
DavidR
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:21 am
Platform: Windows

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:53 pm Post

jesuslpgc wrote:
Daniela Wolfe wrote:
You would think a bunch of writers of all people would be more sympathetic. How many of you have been plagued by writer's block and/or missed a deadline?


In my experience, writers are one of thethe most miserable, sneaky, lowest life forms known to man. And let's not get started with some subspecies like journalists, or scholars....

Well, in defense of scholars, most of them are employed in academic institutions, where human decency has been known to flee the building weeping and screaming. Hmm, is that a defense?

But in support of your point:
Every author, however modest, keeps a most outrageous vanity chained like a madman in the padded cell of his breast. -- Logan Pearsall Smith (1865 – 1946)
David
Scrivener for Windows Version 1.9.9
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit

What's the difference between a free lance and a loose cannon?

je
jesuslpgc
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:48 pm
Platform: Mac

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:58 pm Post

In the meanwhile RC3 is out with an expected lifespan of 10 days instead of 7.... Bummer!!!