WIndows 3 Release: My Thoughts

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Gothelittle
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Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:51 pm Post

xenonexia wrote:I guess I'm just a bit more careful with asking people to use those things and generally prefer a good "clean up everything (including ears, toes and navel) and start over from scratch" as a more suitable recommendation. But that's just me. And my being lazy and not wanting to get involved with doing the extra cleanup duties if things get messed up. :lol: :lol: :wink:


Heh, for what it's worth, it isn't just you! At least once annually, usually twice annually, I prefer to double-check all my backups and do what I call a "nuke and pave", a process that Windows 10 has made far easier than any previous version.

Never worked IT support specifically, but I do design my own machines and have done clean-ups for other people in the past. Plus, there's the small matter ( ;) ) of having been a professional, degreed, Software Engineer and having worked, among other jobs, as a lab manager and as an adjunct college professor in the Computer Department!

You can kinda patch up your install for a while, but - especially with Win10's lovely reset feature - you really ought to be periodically nuking and paving.

Same goes with the cell phone! I'm finally finding myself having to replace my three-year-old smartphone, and it's mostly because I want the security updates; otherwise, I would have simply ordered a new battery! My teenager practically 'lives' off of other people upgrading because 'their phone was getting kind of slow' and giving him the phone. Simple nuke and pave later, it's just like new!

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Darkrose
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Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:51 pm Post

lunk wrote:
Huskey wrote:one question that never gets answered by a critic is, what features do you miss that the current beta version doesn't deliver?

... or what is it you desperately need to be able to do that the current 1.9 version can’t do?


For me, the issue is cross-compatibility. I use Scrivener on Mac, Windows, and iOS. I can either use the beta, or try exporting every time I use Scrivener on my Mac, or wait for a version that automatically syncs all of my projects. I chose the latter, which would be fine except that I would like to upgrade my Mac OS to Catalina. If I do that, I will have to upgrade to Scrivener 3.

It's not an earth-shattering problem, but I would like some idea of when I can expect to be able to upgrade, just so I know.

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xenonexia
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Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:16 pm Post

I still prefer recommending a clean install or a real system refresh. There are so many reasons underlying that.

To begin with, even the best reg-cleaning apps do very strange things to a system (especially if there are many apps already installed, or if there has been a few uninstalls over time - or if the registry, mbr or somesuch is actually corrupted, in which case the extra damages can be really awkward).
And if you recommend such an app to people, it usually helps if they even know what a system backup, and preferably a data backup, actually means and how to do it. And that they have a solution in place to do that, to begin with. Which a painfully large majority of people don't have even today. And so, when things go bad, they tend to go really bad, and it might be all too late to try and fix anything at all.
And even with a backup being made by a reg-cleaner, someone will have to try to apply it again and hope it works as planned. And that one pretty much always turns out to be me. Because I would have been the one who said the thing would work to begin with, and I'm the resident "fix this or else" come to-person for a lot of people.

And I mean... I trust a "computer firm" pretty much as much as I'd trust the devil. And that's usually what most people I know would say as well. So... I end up with cleaning duty more often than not anyways. And I prefer to keep things simple. And as effective as they can possibly be. Turns out that saves me quite some time and extra work, so it turns out it works the best for me, at least.
"If you believe in me", the unicorn said, "I'll believe in you".

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AmberV
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:08 pm Post

Darkrose wrote:I chose the latter, which would be fine except that I would like to upgrade my Mac OS to Catalina. If I do that, I will have to upgrade to Scrivener 3.


If it makes you feel any better, 10.15 is still beta quality, from what I can tell, so it’s better to stick with the current stable fork of macOS in my opinion. I typically don’t install Apple’s updates until late Spring, as that’s about when they approach what I would consider to be acceptable stability for an operating system.

And this release particular, I would say, there is nothing wrong at all with holding back an OS upgrade that invalidates decades of older software. Why narrow the field unless you really have to? It’ll probably be a long time (years maybe) before I install it on my work system.
.:.
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Thanatos0042
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:24 pm Post

So, we obviously have very different IT experiences we pull from. In mine, geneally doing a re-install of a system is the last thing to do or recommend, especially if a user doesn't have an expert present to help them.

While reg-cleaners (and even other pc utilities) used to be a hit and miss, they are a far cry from that these days and are genreally pretty useful. For instanes, I've recommended CCleaner an used it for over a decade now and I've never run across any strange isseus with it or had someone come back to me complaining about it. I've even used the undo feature from it and suffered no issues afterwards. I do understand you have a problem with them, but tht doesn't actually mean they are bad solutions for people in general, especially if the other option is an inexperienced person doing a system reinstall. Refreshes can be okay, but if you have any issues with adware or viruses, they will just come right back.

While everyone should have up-to-date backups of their critical information and knowing how to do those backups is always helpful, it's rarely like that with the typical user. Installing an app and running it is far more reasonable than having to prep them through a re-install, which usually requires backing up all their data, making sure their windows key is valid, BIOS changes for USB or CD boot, getting a copy of Windows onto that and making it bootable, having a list of their installed applications, their hardware and drivers (because WIndows 10 doesn't always find something compatible), a backup way to get to the internet and software from it for unexpected problems, etc. It's easy to have all this prepped if you are an expect, but if you are a typical user, it's not as simple as a software install.

With google reviews and yelp, it's not so hard to find reputable comptuer firms. If you aren't an expert and you don't know one or want to craigslist or Geek Squad your computer, you are limited to another shop or you-tube and doing it yourself (which can be fine, I've had to do small things to my car this way and I have -0- mechnaical skill). But you have to pick a poison lol.

So, I think we have veered far off the topic of the thread, so you do you and make recommendations based on that and I will do the same thing based on my experiences. Hopefully other people will find these posts educational and take something good from them.

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Thanatos0042
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:27 pm Post

dgmcalgary wrote:Is anyone else looking over the new Manual document and drooling?

It looks SOOOO good.

Reading and familiarizing myself - learning some new tricks too.

So happy to be using this solution.


There's a new manual with version 3 stuff in it? I'm not sure how I have missed this.

Can someone provide me with a link to it please? I've poked around a bit, but I'm not seeing it...bad eyes and a small phone screen probably aren't helpful.

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rdale
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:28 pm Post

Thanatos0042 wrote:
dgmcalgary wrote:Is anyone else looking over the new Manual document and drooling?

It looks SOOOO good.

Reading and familiarizing myself - learning some new tricks too.

So happy to be using this solution.


There's a new manual with version 3 stuff in it? I'm not sure how I have missed this.

Can someone provide me with a link to it please? I've poked around a bit, but I'm not seeing it...bad eyes and a small phone screen probably aren't helpful.

If you have the beta for Windows Scrivener 3, it's under the help menu. Also the window that pops up when you don't have any projects open should have it as an option to choose, even though it's just a PDF.
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Thanatos0042
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:52 pm Post

rdale wrote:If you have the beta for Windows Scrivener 3, it's under the help menu. Also the window that pops up when you don't have any projects open should have it as an option to choose, even though it's just a PDF.


That's my problem, I don't have it installed on anything currently.

Thanks for that, I will download it and install it so I can take a look at the PDF.

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kewms
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:15 pm Post

You can download the Mac Scrivener 3 manual PDF here: https://www.literatureandlatte.com/lear ... ser-guides

There are also quite a few blog posts about the Scrivener 3 functionality here:
https://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog?category=29

Again, these are for the Mac version so the precise appearance and menu commands may be different, but the functionality should be much the same.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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Thanatos0042
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:18 pm Post

Thank you Katherine.

I appreciate the links you posted.

wb
wburkett
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:24 pm Post

kewms wrote:
AmberV wrote:
It is disheartening to continue to see Mac releases (3.1.4 on 10/10/19) and no Windows 3.0 release.


You evidently are not aware of the fact that this was a small bug fix release to patch some areas that were broken by a recent macOS update. :lol:


What Ioa said. There have also been some recent critical updates to the release version of Scrivener for Windows. Are those also "disheartening?"

Katherine


Yes.

Look: There seem to be a whole gaggle of Scrivener users all ready-and-set to jump all over any of us that express the slightest negative comment about the long-delayed release of Scrivener 3.0 for Windows. What's with that? I didn't attack L&L and hold no hard feelings toward them; I know they're doing what they need to do to get the product out. I don't use a Mac and I am very-much looking forward to the official release of Scrivener 3.0 for Windows.

When I was a kid, my mother used to try to argue me out of feeling a certain way using logic. I always hated that because while the logic might have been sound I still felt the way I felt. There was a complete lack of acknowledgement or understanding of the way I felt - it was simply dismissed in a shower of logic. So while I love the fact that there are so many loyal Scrivener users out there (and I am one of them) ready to defend L&L against any detractors (I am not one of them), there's no amount of logic that's going to rationalize, for me, the long-long-long delayed release of Scrivener 3.0 for Windows. I am disheartened, bummed, and frustrated by this delay. Period. You may disagree with me and that's perfectly fine and I respect that - just stop telling me I should feel a different way about it.

Here are two unarguable facts:

(1) Scrivener 3.0 for Mac was first release over three years ago, July 2016 (that might be inaccurate - best date I could find).
(2) Scrivener 3.0 for Windows has not been released as of November 2019.

Make what you will out of them.

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DavidR
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:33 pm Post

Point taken, wburkett. See my post earlier in this thread.
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Daniela Wolfe
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:52 pm Post

wburkett wrote:(1) Scrivener 3.0 for Mac was first release over three years ago, July 2016 (that might be inaccurate - best date I could find).
(2) Scrivener 3.0 for Windows has not been released as of November 2019.

Make what you will out of them.


Ummm... Where'd you get that date?

The Official Release date was November 20, 2017 as per the official blog post:

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog ... ategory=29
Have a deliciously demented day,

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lunk
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:32 pm Post

wburkett wrote: When I was a kid, my mother used to try to argue me out of feeling a certain way using logic. I always hated that because while the logic might have been sound I still felt the way I felt. There was a complete lack of acknowledgement or understanding of the way I felt - it was simply dismissed in a shower of logic.
- - -
there's no amount of logic that's going to rationalize, for me, the long-long-long delayed release of Scrivener 3.0 for Windows. I am disheartened, bummed, and frustrated by this delay
- - -
stop telling me I should feel a different way about it.

Maybe the point your mother was trying to make wasn’t to stop you from feeling the way you did, but for you to stop expressing it in a loud voice? At least that’s basically what happens in here. There are logical reasons for why the Win version 3 hasn’t been officialy released, so what’s the point in telling the whole world you feel disheartened, bummed and frustrated? Does posting in here make you feel less frustrated and more content with the situation?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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Prometheus
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Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:29 pm Post

lunk wrote:
wburkett wrote: When I was a kid, my mother used to try to argue me out of feeling a certain way using logic. I always hated that because while the logic might have been sound I still felt the way I felt. There was a complete lack of acknowledgement or understanding of the way I felt - it was simply dismissed in a shower of logic.
- - -
there's no amount of logic that's going to rationalize, for me, the long-long-long delayed release of Scrivener 3.0 for Windows. I am disheartened, bummed, and frustrated by this delay
- - -
stop telling me I should feel a different way about it.

Maybe the point your mother was trying to make wasn’t to stop you from feeling the way you did, but for you to stop expressing it in a loud voice? At least that’s basically what happens in here.


Seriously, dude - go back, read Amber's post, and stop taking jabs at people and telling them they shouldn't be telling L&L how they feel about the continued, constant delays of WinV3. This guy wasn't being rude at all, but you, as usual, are.

There are logical reasons for why the Win version 3 hasn’t been officialy released, so what’s the point in telling the whole world you feel disheartened, bummed and frustrated? Does posting in here make you feel less frustrated and more content with the situation?


Yes, frustrated people: do not voice your frustrations here, because forum cop lunk and others will make sure they pop in to tell you why you should not be posting.

And you wonder why people don't explore the forums more after they land here.