WIndows 3 Release: My Thoughts

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Bethin2301
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Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:17 pm Post

I don't really care about the delay. I mean, obviously I want scrivener 3, but I'm used to waiting for things. I think most authors are. The problem for me is being promised dates that doesn't hold up, and then not being updated on the blog. I'm not really a forum user, so I check the blog for updates, and there are almost never any. And when I go check the forum, I'm pretty shocked at some of the really snarky, bordering on rude replies given by the scrivener people to people that complain. I get it, complaining isn't fun, but in this case you kind of deserve it and should take it with grace rather than with attitude. Not that anyone cares what anyone else on the forums says, lol

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AmberV
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Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:42 pm Post

The problem for me is being promised dates that doesn’t hold up, and then not being updated on the blog.


We published a post on this shortly after the missed target, in fact, maybe it was missed.

As it says there, we aren’t estimating out loud any more. As you say it’s just a source of frustration, so we’d rather just buckle down and get it done. Keith also specifically responded to this identical complaint that you lodged, here.

As to the rest, it might be best to take that to our feedback channel, if you have a complaint with any of us. Normally I’d not have a problem with it, but inside of a thread that is a dry tinder like this, where I’ve had to repeatedly ask people to lay off of the flame prose, it is not bound to be very productive.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

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kewms
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Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:03 pm Post

Also please be aware that only of the few people posting in this thread (or elsewhere) are L&L employees. Other forum users speak only for themselves.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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devinganger
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Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:38 pm Post

kewms wrote:Other forum users speak only for themselves.


Or our cats.
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
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Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes

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Jaysen
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Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:46 pm Post

devinganger wrote:
kewms wrote:Other forum users speak only for themselves.


Or our cats.

Would a cat really let anyone speak for it? wouldn't it be
what my cat told me to say

I know it's a bit of a semantic but i don't need any cats hunting us down.

Now dogs... you can speak for dogs any time. And they are grateful when you do. Gives them more time to roll in crap. Litteral crap. Because ... dogs. They roll in crap.
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

ImageImage

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lunk
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Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:08 pm Post

... or eat it.
Cats won’t do either.

7931AF07-39E7-454A-B4C4-C7C565E11536.jpeg
7931AF07-39E7-454A-B4C4-C7C565E11536.jpeg (324.44 KiB) Viewed 3434 times
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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AmberV
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Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:39 pm Post

Significant is the lower right corner, which clearly depicts a sheet of toilet paper, which is no doubt part of an entire roll that has be strewn across the entire house.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

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theswede
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Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:05 pm Post

rivermonster wrote:Trust me, Windows has always been and will ALWAYS be a second class citizen to this company. No matter the dialogue and fanboi defenses for this nonsense in the pages of responses, you'll find that this is true for the entire time that Scrivener for Windows has been out. The features always lag, and the support will always be lagging behind issues and innovation on the Mac. You do NOT need to take my word, any research into this will show you that it is true and has always been the case.


It is nowhere near that cut and dry. L&L has twice as many developers devoted to Windows as they have to Mac. In fact, they have one developer for Mac and iOS and two for nothing but Windows.

It is not about Windows being a second class citizen. It has to do with what the environments provide for the developer to build on.

MacOS and iOS build on the magnificent groundwork by NeXT, which they bought from Steve Jobs. The current iteration of this is Cocoa, which is a set of functionality for office and collaborative applications which NeXT started developing in the 80's, and which is still being actively added to today. It is an IMMENSELY rich set of functionality that any MacOS or iOS developer has instant access to, as soon as they get Xcode and a license and start working with it.

Windows, in contrast, has a very weak set of functionality for developing office like applications. For good reason; their two main products have for decades been Windows and Office, and they do not want to make it easy to make competing applications.

Therefore, with comparatively little work you can build a very good office type application, like, say, an outliner, in MacOS or iOS. Then you can put your effort into the added functionality, and you will have a very good application pretty quickly. That is not the case with Windows, where you will spend most of your time developing basic functionality which is already present in the OS libraries in MacOS/iOS.

On top of this the Windows team has the difficulty of matching the way the Windows version works with the already developed version for MacOS. That is not an easy task at the best of times, and it gets harder since there is a lack of good, ready made functionality which is close to what Cocoa provides.



rivermonster wrote:LL will give you lots of lip service about how important the Windows version is but, look at their actions NOT their words.


And their actions are; TWICE as many developers for Windows, the 1.x Windows version is at MacOS 2.x version feature parity (almost) and they provide the upgrade for free for anyone who bought the Windows version since quite some time.

This tells me they take Windows VERY seriously.
Jesper Anderson SA5NEO
Computer scientist. Software engineer. Scifi writer. Scuba diver.

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devinganger
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Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:28 pm Post

Jaysen wrote:
devinganger wrote:
kewms wrote:Other forum users speak only for themselves.


Or our cats.

Would a cat really let anyone speak for it? wouldn't it be
what my cat told me to say

I know it's a bit of a semantic but i don't need any cats hunting us down.


Good catch, sir. I humbly accept your correction.
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Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes

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KelseyatHilltopBooks
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Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:07 pm Post

Sigh...

No criticisms here. Just a boring agreement...the whole beta wait-and-see-whenever process doesn't bother me in the least because it is a mirror-image of my own writing process. I can't publish anything until it's perfect. And I mean ten thousand reviews perfect. And I do mean can't publish. I just...simply...can't give you something I'm not proud of and that I know is the best that I can make it be.

So the only writing of mine whatsoever that has made it out into the public are lesson and lecture notes...simply and only because of deadlines. The rare times I've written something that felt publish-worthy, upon another read simply turned into the notes for a new, better version. Heck, I revised this post before posting it more times than I'm comfortable sharing! (And I'm sure there are still grammatical errors, but...)

For you who don't have a day job and so must rely on your writing for income, I grieve for you if you have the obsessive-compulsive tendencies that I have. For the rest of the writing, um, hobbyists?...on here like me...that old wheel will roll around again. I will say that, since I don't rely on my writing for income I can enjoy it for the pure catharsis that it is.

As for now, L&L I appreciate your work very much and I sympathize completely with your wanting to release nothing less than the best. Here's hoping you do much better than I.

ga
gaspeer
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Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:37 pm Post

KelseyatHilltopBooks wrote:
...As for now, L&L I appreciate your work very much and I sympathize completely with your wanting to release nothing less than the best. Here's hoping you do much better than I.


I wanted to ask: Once scr for Win 3 is out of beta and released to the masses -- will ver. 1.9.x continue to be supported by L & L? I may or may not buy ver. 3. Ver. 1.9.x meets my writing needs, so I may just skip ver. 3.x for now. Will I still get any updates for 1.9.x or will it simply fade away as ver. 3.x gains traction?

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AmberV
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Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:52 pm Post

We will be supporting older versions for as long as people use them. We still support version 1.x for Mac, for all of the four or five people still using it. :) It's not only a matter of choice, but some people cannot use the newer versions as their systems are too old.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

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DavidR
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Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:48 pm Post

But I presume that v. 1.9.x will no longer be updated once v. 3 is publicly released? Unless there are (*shudder*) licensing service issues that need addressing?
David
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AmberV
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Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:56 pm Post

Yes, as is typical, only dire and necessary fixes will be made to any legacy versions of software.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

ga
gaspeer
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:18 am Post

AmberV wrote:We will be supporting older versions for as long as people use them. We still support version 1.x for Mac, for all of the four or five people still using it. :) It's not only a matter of choice, but some people cannot use the newer versions as their systems are too old.

Good to know that. Thanks!