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Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:37 pm
by michaelp23
Over a year ago when I made my initial Scrivener 3 purchase for MacOS I was not so keen at the delayed release of the Windows version, but at the end of the day I understood it is more difficult to upgrade. The expected date was Q2 or Q3 of 2018.

Then nothing happened, beta versions looked horrid and were noticeably worse than the one on Mac. I waited, I was patient waiting for the amazing product to make its way to Windows. The expected date became Q2 of 2019. For those who do not know the 'Q' means quarter. The second quarter of 2019 ended on the 30th of June 2019 and we are no in Q3 of 2019. The product page is not updated and the beta looks identical.

I downloaded the beta after reading a positive post on this forum claiming it's on par with MacOS. It is horrid seeing the two next to each other. While the document is written in Palatino the Windows version converts it to a new version of the Courier font. The UI is poorly designed and look like it's from 2014, not something that's still to come hopefully by 2020.

For context it's going to be 2 years since Scrivener 3 released on Mac and I made my purchase. Taking 2 whole years for a simple upgrade is unacceptable. This bundled with the terrible nothing state of Scapple, which the team must have forgotten about, makes me regret my purchase very much. As a result I am searching for alternative software, but I am coming up empty.

As a customer I am disappointed.

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:34 pm
by AmberV
The product page is not updated and the beta looks identical.


Here is some more recent news. It looks like we do need to update the info box on the Windows feature overview page though, thanks for bringing that to our attention.

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:12 pm
by kewms
Both Mac and Windows Scapple released new versions last week. -- Katherine

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:07 pm
by sorrynofocus
I'm a Scrivener 1.x user waiting for the Windows 3.x build.

I'm a patient man... Not being sarcastic.

Any xplat development takes time but..... I was shocked.... by reading the blog they're using QT and doing development separate platform development. In addition to this, creating their own engines for spell check and richedits. There /are/ alternatives.

I would recommend the development team check out QT alternatives . Xamarin? C#? After working in C#, coming from C++, it's a lot easier and cleaner code. I'm hoping to do xplat soon because I previously started to develop my own authoring software just for kicks (yes, RichEdit is hair pulling). After someone asked "Is it written for Mac?" I frowned and decided I cannot keep doing code that's becoming a speciality. C# was the way to go and I've had so much fun with it (I'm still on WinForms :) ). It's widely supported and C++ can be wrapped to be consumed.

But, I digress. The Scrivener development team, please take your time. Do it right. We all still love you and Scriver 1.x /still/ works wonderfully under Windows 10. An extra month I can live. It's not like 12 years, when the world is supposed to end. Godspeed. However, look into other up-to-date technologies for xplat development without re-creating engines that are out there. Perhaps putting some code on GitHub so the community helps out will give the team less headache. :)

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:37 am
by Synth
Finally after all that radio silence we have a solid update. And it is all I ever wanted from an update and more. And we even have a concrete release date! Things are looking good on my end, can't wait for it. Thanks for the hard work guys :D

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:45 pm
by schoolmann
I am one of those who has been critical of the delay for the Windows release, I would like to commend Lee Powell on his (her?) forthright message regarding the current status of the project. Namely, Lee acknowledges and validates Windows users' frustration with the project, lets us know what is happening and what the hold-up is. That's all I needed.

This attitude is far preferable to the dismissive and defensive view that some (including some officially affiliated with L&L) have expressed, to the effect that Scrivener for Windows is the best tool for writing in the Windows environment, so who cares if it lags behind the Mac version. I understand that customer criticism is likely to cause feelings of defensiveness, but it is unprofessional for a company to take that defensiveness out on its customers.

So once again, kudos to Lee's very thoughtful and considerate blog post. I really appreciate it.

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:15 pm
by devinganger
schoolmann wrote:to the effect that Scrivener for Windows is the best tool for writing in the Windows environment, so who cares if it lags behind the Mac version


For the record, this is not an accurate summation of anyone's responses.

What *was* said is that Scrivener for Windows 1.9.x is a complete program in its own right, and people who purchase and use it successfully write all sorts of projects, Yes, it is going to lag behind, but it is not a wise practice to buy software unless you are happy with what it is *at the moment you buy it* and never got another update. Getting updates and new functionality is just icing on the cake!

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:08 pm
by schoolmann
devinganger wrote:
schoolmann wrote:to the effect that Scrivener for Windows is the best tool for writing in the Windows environment, so who cares if it lags behind the Mac version


For the record, this is not an accurate summation of anyone's responses.


In context, I was clearly referring to previous threads. Such as in "Passing on Scrivener for now":

kewms wrote:Unless you're planning to buy a Mac, what difference does it make that Win Scrivener is different from Mac Scrivener? As a Windows user, your choice is between Scrivener and other applications that work on PCs.


However, the point of my post in this thread is that I appreciate Lee's acknowledgment of Windows users' frustration.

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:05 am
by novelwriting
I agree. It isn't the same and by the time they finally get it out, the Mac version will already be getting all new features. As usual they leave the windows version to be sub-par to the mac version. Oh and it is a big deal that there is a difference. The problem is, unless you want to spend several thousand on a mac computer just to run this one program, you are at a disadvantage. Mac users have always had a far better program to use then all the writers using windows. And yes, if it isn't as streamlined, doesn't have as many features, or the features are sub-par, it does make a difference to a user. They are spending far more resources on the mac and OS versions then on the windows team. Both Mac and OS have had a few updates already. Mac 3.0 has been out now for nearly 2 years. Seriously, two years!!! They promised the windows version would be out within a year after the mac version. Well, they certainly missed that mark. Sure there are buggy beta's we can use, but is that really wise? Maybe if you don't mind risking losing all your hard work due to a glitch. I don't mind trying out the beta just to see what it has, but for anyone who values their time, they wouldn't risk trusting a beta program with countless hours of work. Unless they are a masochist.
I had heard a few months ago that they would finally get this done by the end of August. Judging from all the bugs still present, I doubt they will hit that date either.
Shall we assume the Windows 3.0 will finally be available by the time they put out Mac 4.0? Or is that wishful thinking?

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:09 am
by lunk
novelwriting wrote:Mac users have always had far better programs to use
True.
That’s why I switched to Mac six years ago. :)
The only exception is Excel for Windows which is better than Excel for Mac.

But don’t blame your failure as a writer on Scrivener.

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:41 pm
by Twolane
Speaking of failed writers, judging by all the negative comments on the Windows beta, there appears to be plenty of writers blaming the tool. Methinks the failures should take a look in the plate glass on the outside of the coffee-shop patio. They might just catch a glimpse of themselves.

In the meantime, there's always a very functional Scriv for Win 1.9 for all the Windows users. Oh, and before I forget, if they're succe$$ful enough to own a Macintosh or an iPad, there's versions of Scrivener out there for them, too.

Look away from your reflection in the coffee-shop window and get to work.

Write on!

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:28 pm
by novelwriting
To indicate that anyone who points out the failure of the windows version to keep up with the Mac version results in that person to be a failure is very flawed logic. And to say that a person should buy the IPad version so that they may a more up to date version is also flawed in so many ways as that version is limited. So, where is the logic? I guess it went out the plate glass window those people were looking out when they wrote those comments.

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:22 pm
by DavidR
novelwriting wrote:To indicate that anyone who points out the failure of the windows version to keep up with the Mac version results in that person to be a failure is very flawed logic. And to say that a person should buy the IPad version so that they may a more up to date version is also flawed in so many ways as that version is limited. So, where is the logic? I guess it went out the plate glass window those people were looking out when they wrote those comments.

I tend to agree ... it's really not fair, only more sniping, to assume that someone is blaming problems that someone else imagines they have on the tool. That said....
novelwriting wrote:It isn't the same and by the time they finally get it out, the Mac version will already be getting all new features. As usual they leave the windows version to be sub-par to the mac version. Oh and it is a big deal that there is a difference.... And yes, if it isn't as streamlined, doesn't have as many features, or the features are sub-par, it does make a difference to a user. They are spending far more resources on the mac and OS versions then on the windows team.... Sure there are buggy beta's we can use, but is that really wise? Maybe if you don't mind risking losing all your hard work due to a glitch. I don't mind trying out the beta just to see what it has, but for anyone who values their time, they wouldn't risk trusting a beta program with countless hours of work. Unless they are a masochist.
I had heard a few months ago that they would finally get this done by the end of August. Judging from all the bugs still present, I doubt they will hit that date either.
Shall we assume the Windows 3.0 will finally be available by the time they put out Mac 4.0? Or is that wishful thinking?

This is just full of pure unproven assumption: Please tell us how you know that when the Windows version comes out, the Mac version will have new or better features than it does. What access do you have to L&L's budget and personnel deployment? Have you tried the beta? Many users report that it is quite usable and safe (basically all the responses to the similarly constructed whinge here). It also remains to be seen whether or not they hit the end-of-August target.
Overall, I just find this childish. And I say that as a person who frequently has pretty childish outbursts himself; it does take one to know one.

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:25 pm
by lunk
novelwriting wrote:To indicate that anyone who points out the failure of the windows version to keep up with the Mac version results in that person to be a failure is very flawed logic.
No, it’s not. :)

Re: Dissapointment in the Windows Team

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:05 pm
by Twolane
the failure of the windows version to keep up with the Mac version

Yeah, no, you're stating the obvious. It's been that way for years, doncha know. You're late to the choir. Try to keep up.

to say that a person should buy the IPad version so that they may have (sic) a more up to date version

Nope. No way. * shakes head effusively * I never said that. Methinks too much time checking one's reflection in the plate glass window leads to comprehension diffugulties.

To reiterate:
there's always a very functional Scriv for Win 1.9 for all the Windows users. Oh, and before I forget, if they're succe$$ful enough to own a Macintosh or an iPad, there's versions of Scrivener out there for them, too.