Window Q2

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rscottfarrell
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Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:45 pm Post

Ok, It is Q2. Where is Windows 3? I wish you would just charge more and keep this program current.

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devinganger
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Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:18 am Post

Point the first, Q2 starts in April and ends in June.
Point the second, the current beta has an expiration date of May 15.
Point the third, the Q2 2019 date was an update on progress and estimate made at the time of the blog posting, not a hard and fast guarantee.
Point the fourth, if you haven't been following the beta, you should, because you will see that they are working very hard to get "this program current."
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rscottfarrell
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Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:14 pm Post

Point 1, you made my point
Point 2, No betas controlling my work. Too important. I want the real thing.
Point 3, Ridiculously long update. This is the point.
Point 4, is point 2.
Obviously you are not a results-oriented person. I am. Good luck.

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xiamenese
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Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:47 pm Post

rscottfarrell wrote:Point 3, Ridiculously long update. This is the point.

Since it is being programmed by 2 chaps having to rewrite millions of lines of code, including developing the necessary frameworks within a significantly updated version of the development environment, together with a lot of highly significant changes to the Mac version it is seeking parity with, there is nothing ridiculous about it.
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rscottfarrell
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Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:07 pm Post

I appreciate the complexity, and it goes to my point which was to charge more and have a bigger staff to move faster. I love the product, (except compile which is poorly designed IMO) and I have also thought it was underpriced. If you write daily, as I do, it is extremely valuable.

Also, do you know if compile is going to be the same as the Mac version (which has negative reviews online) or is it an improved, simpler design? A new design possibly?

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lunk
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Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:00 pm Post

rscottfarrell wrote:Also, do you know if compile is going to be the same as the Mac version (which has negative reviews online) or is it an improved, simpler design? A new design possibly?

Compile has a completely new design in Mac v 3. Much simpler when you understand it, but difficult for those that finally learned how to use the old v 1 and 2 compile structure.

Feature parity means "as similar as possible" so I doubt that they will try to invent a third version of the new compile structure to replace the one they developed for the new Mac v 3.

rscottfarrell wrote:If you write daily, as I do, it is extremely valuable.


If it is that important to you, and you are...

rscottfarrell wrote:a results-oriented person. I am.


..., why don't you get yourself a Mac so you can reach results with the new Scrivener 3 for Mac? What are you waiting for?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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devinganger
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Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:00 am Post

rscottfarrell wrote:Obviously you are not a results-oriented person. I am.



rscottfarrell wrote:I appreciate the complexity, and it goes to my point which was to charge more and have a bigger staff to move faster.


May I recommend that you track down and read the wonderful book "The Mythical Man-Month" as it is a classic on the non-intuitive nature of project management and how adding more people to a complicated project doesn't necessarily make the project go any faster, and in fact in many cases can slow it down?

Or to put it another way, "Don't rush a miracle man. You get rotten miracles."
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rscottfarrell
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Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:59 pm Post

Actually I have a Mac and Scrivener 3. I have two work stations, one PC and one Mac. My PC is my main writing center because I have created multiple screens controlled by a single computer (I refer to it as my Swordfish station). At any given time I may have 10 or more windows open for one reason or another, related to the novel. For the completed work, I move it over to my Mac and compile. So I use v3 to compile and it is that which has received negative reviews, some of which I agree with. I guess some of that is the learning curve. Thanks for the input. Looking forward to the day when the PC and Mac Scrivener can work on the same file seamlessly.

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lunk
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Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:55 pm Post

rscottfarrell wrote:Looking forward to the day when the PC and Mac Scrivener can work on the same file seamlessly.

You can.
Mac version 2.9 use the same format as the latest officially released Win version.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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pigfender
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Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:06 pm Post

If you want an out -- Q2 could just as easily refer to July-September.
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DavidR
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Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:31 pm Post

xiamenese wrote:
rscottfarrell wrote:Point 3, Ridiculously long update. This is the point.

Since it is being programmed by 2 chaps having to rewrite millions of lines of code, including developing the necessary frameworks within a significantly updated version of the development environment, together with a lot of highly significant changes to the Mac version it is seeking parity with, there is nothing ridiculous about it.

rscottfarrell wrote:I appreciate the complexity, and it goes to my point which was to charge more and have a bigger staff to move faster.

A classic instance, then, of "Speed. Quality. Price. Pick any two."
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Nightmarian
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Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:15 am Post

While he hasn't said it in the most polite way, I do agree. I get that it's only two people and that Mac is always going to be the top dog and Windows is going to be forever behind. However, maybe Literature & Latte could work to address that lack in parity. Considering how popular Scrivener is and the general price of programs I doubt an increase to $60-$100 would be met with much more than grumbles if it means development increased sharply.

Using the "they're working hard, sympathize" card really isn't a valid excuse. I'm sure a ton of coders and developers work hard, but they also release high-quality products in reasonable timeframes. I don't think a "just get Mac" is a valid answer either, as for numerous reasons that may not be feasible or worthwhile for some. I can easily dual boot, but using Mac for literally one program is a bit of a stretch here.

It took so long for the Windows version to catch up that we're literally skipping a number and we're still not there while V3 Mac is chugging along happily.

If it was a case of competition, then that would be something else, as unfortunately there is no other writing platform with Scrivener's set of features and UI style, so we're kind of held hostage here unless we just want an inferior product which defeats the point. Already using Scrivener 1, which is already an inferior product.

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lunk
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Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:08 am Post

Nightmarian wrote:Mac is always going to be the top dog and Windows is going to be forever behind.

Absolutely!

But that’s not the point. The point is that there are currently two major operating systems - Mac Os and Windows. Some developers only make software for one of the OS:es, some make versions for both.

For a person having a computer running either of the OS:es it’s actually irrelevant what softwares that are available for users of the other OS.

Posting on a user forum requesting that things available on one OS should be available on the other OS, as if it was a human right to have access to all possible softwares, is actually very childish and immature.

Having followed the discussions in the user forum for quite some time I wonder if the true problem has nothing to do with the differences between the two versions. The problem is that the ranters have problems writing, and instead of realizing that the problem lies within themselves they want to have some external factor to blame.

When Win Scrivener 3 is officially released, what will you then blame for your inability to finish that novel you have been working on for so long?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running the latest MacOS
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 8, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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JimRac
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Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:08 pm Post

Nightmarian wrote:If it was a case of competition, then that would be something else, as unfortunately there is no other writing platform with Scrivener's set of features and UI style, so we're kind of held hostage here unless we just want an inferior product which defeats the point. Already using Scrivener 1, which is already an inferior product.
You’re mistaken here. It *is* a case of competition. There are plenty of competing Windows products, but they are inferior even to what you are calling L&L’s “inferior” Windows product.

Think about it. If this market segment is so lucrative and a Scrivener-class product so easy to develop that all it takes is throwing developers at the project, don’t you think other companies would have done so already?
I’m just a customer.

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Scribhneoir
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Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:39 pm Post

lunk wrote:Posting on a user forum requesting that things available on one OS should be available on the other OS, as if it was a human right to have access to all possible softwares, is actually very childish and immature.

Having followed the discussions in the user forum for quite some time I wonder if the true problem has nothing to do with the differences between the two versions. The problem is that the ranters have problems writing, and instead of realizing that the problem lies within themselves they want to have some external factor to blame.

When Win Scrivener 3 is officially released, what will you then blame for your inability to finish that novel you have been working on for so long?


I've wondered why you, a Mac only user, spends so much time in the Windows forum. Now I understand. You're here to sneer at and insult Windows users. How special.

And, once again, you miss the point that Windows users are making. Scrivener is available for Windows, but it is years behind the Mac version in features and continuing to fall even further behind. L&L has been promising parity since day one (2011, in case you don't know). But it never happens. We are not whining about the lack of the product in our sphere; we are expressing frustration at the endless delays to the long-promised parity. Delays that are always shrugged off and accompanied by suggestions that we just be quiet and wait another year.

The December blog post offered Windows users another empty promise. While there are still about 80 days left in Q2, the possibility that Win 3 will be released within that timeframe is remote, if the Beta forum threads are anything to go by. Not holding my breath for a Q2 release or, indeed, for a 2019 release. But I just may start looking into those Windows competitors JimRac mentioned.