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Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:06 am
by Collider
giogio80 wrote:As usual Windows users come last ... never lose some money for the new MacOS release. Say Scrivener 3 is the first paid upgrade in 6 years ... To Windows users you should give it as you've treated them all this time. I was looking for Scrivener for Windows update mail to fix at least the problem with high resolution screens. You answered me to wait until March 2017. Now let's wait for the 2018 unlimited and pay as well. Too bad that there is no other software to replace, at least not now, but I'm sure I will not be a beta tester free of charge for those who want a pay-per-upgrade. Do not deserve it


L&L have always been up-front about the state of Scrivener on Windows, and the reasons why; that we only have to wait a few months for effectively five years of cross-platform catch-up is a big accomplishment. Giving us the opportunity to beta the Windows version in tandem with the Mac release seems like the best of all possible worlds -- more eyes on a project with very limited resources, plus compatibility with the OSX version for those who use both. It's a sensible decision, IMHO, and definitely not 'Windows users coming last'.

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:59 pm
by Sanguinius
giogio80 wrote:As usual Windows users come last ... never lose some money for the new MacOS release. Say Scrivener 3 is the first paid upgrade in 6 years ... To Windows users you should give it as you've treated them all this time. I was looking for Scrivener for Windows update mail to fix at least the problem with high resolution screens. You answered me to wait until March 2017. Now let's wait for the 2018 unlimited and pay as well. Too bad that there is no other software to replace, at least not now, but I'm sure I will not be a beta tester free of charge for those who want a pay-per-upgrade. Do not deserve it

Well, sure Windows users come last, but only because in a group of two, the one that is second is last. It's not like there are fifty OSs being developed for and Windows users only get catered to after every one of the other forty-nine have been placated. We're getting Scrivener 3.0. It's going to be close to equivalent to the Mac version. Be happy about it.

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:13 pm
by DavidR
giogio80 does make a point worth considering: being a beta tester (which is a lot of work if it's done right) for free and then having to pay the full upgrade price for the software does seem a little hard. Perhaps it might be reasonable to offer the beta testers a discount (as a non-tester, I wouldn't be offended in the least).

It might be even more reasonable if Scrivener weren't so ridiculously cheap in the first place. $40 US (current new-purchase price) for an unlimited license for software this complex is, IMHO, peanuts, chicken feed--it's feeding peanuts to your chickens. (Sorry for the Americanisms!)

I will say that having the update now postponed until sometime in 2018 is not welcome news. Let's hope things go more smoothly than they expect!

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:23 pm
by JimRac
DavidR wrote:I will say that having the update now postponed until sometime in 2018 is not welcome news. Let's hope things go more smoothly than they expect!


Hi David,

In all fairness, it cannot be said that the Windows update has been *postponed*, because a release date was never stated. :D

In another post, Keith had mentioned that Windows 3.0 would most likely be released about 6 months behind the Mac version, so L&L has been trying to manage our expectations.

Hope this doesn't come across as nitpicking, but I used to develop software and am sensitive to that word!
Jim

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:33 pm
by Mick
Why does it matter if the Windows version comes after the Mac version? Some Mac programs aren't even available for Windows, and vice versa.

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:06 pm
by AmberV
DavidR wrote:giogio80 does make a point worth considering: being a beta tester (which is a lot of work if it’s done right) for free and then having to pay the full upgrade price for the software does seem a little hard.

Granted, if we were demanding everyone put in five hours of high-quality QA work every day, sure—but that’s a far cry from what was written about in the blog post and I’m not sure where it is coming from. This is more about getting the work out there in the mainstream, providing a cross-platform opportunity for those that need it, and giving curious people a chance to see the final result of years of work come into shape.

You know… like every other free public beta in the past 20 or 30 years. :) Use it as you wish—and we will of course be grateful of every bit of feedback or report anyone makes in the meanwhile.

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:33 pm
by kewms
DavidR wrote:giogio80 does make a point worth considering: being a beta tester (which is a lot of work if it's done right) for free and then having to pay the full upgrade price for the software does seem a little hard. Perhaps it might be reasonable to offer the beta testers a discount (as a non-tester, I wouldn't be offended in the least).


Let me introduce you to Eastgate Systems, which actually charges for access to their beta program:
http://www.eastgate.com/Tinderbox/Backstage.html

Katherine

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:56 pm
by AmberV
One word: kickstarter. ;)

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:16 pm
by DavidR
JimRac wrote:
DavidR wrote:In all fairness, it cannot be said that the Windows update has been *postponed*, because a release date was never stated. :D

In another post, Keith had mentioned that Windows 3.0 would most likely be released about 6 months behind the Mac version, so L&L has been trying to manage our expectations.

Hope this doesn't come across as nitpicking, but I used to develop software and am sensitive to that word!
Jim

No, not nitpicking at all. I've been involved with beta testing other complex software developed by a small shop, and I have seen the dismal results of promising release dates. "Postponed" was probably the wrong word. But I definitely do hope that their work goes well enough that we see it even earlier than expected--merely a hope on my part!

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:20 pm
by DavidR
AmberV wrote:
DavidR wrote:giogio80 does make a point worth considering: being a beta tester (which is a lot of work if it’s done right) for free and then having to pay the full upgrade price for the software does seem a little hard.

Granted, if we were demanding everyone put in five hours of high-quality QA work every day, sure—but that’s a far cry from what was written about in the blog post and I’m not sure where it is coming from. This is more about getting the work out there in the mainstream, providing a cross-platform opportunity for those that need it, and giving curious people a chance to see the final result of years of work come into shape.

You know… like every other free public beta in the past 20 or 30 years. :) Use it as you wish—and we will of course be grateful of every bit of feedback or report anyone makes in the meanwhile.

I think my viewpoint was skewed by having done some fairly intense beta testing in a situation that was not truly "public," and probably having put more work into it than was really even expected. (Do anything but write, don't you know!)

One of the things that really do amaze me about Scrivener (maybe I shouldn't say this!) is its price. I actually don't think that light beta testing should get in the way of feeling willing to pony up the full pittance for this very major update.

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:33 pm
by schoolmann
AmberV wrote:Well, so long as you are not referring to Microsoft’s proprietary feature which we have no plans to support—yeah, there are two tools in fact that Scrivener for macOS uses to show you where you’ve been and where you are: revision mode is one, as mentioned, where your additions are marked in a defined colour; the second is the ability to retroactively compare, with visual markings, any snapshot with the current text or another snapshot. I use a mixture of the two methods, depending on the phase of the project.


No, I had simply forgotten the name of revision mode in Scrivener.

For those of you wanting free upgrades . . .

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:46 pm
by klester
Let me start first by saying that I'm definitely no shill for L&L. I've been critical of them in the past when they've been overly cautious or non-informative to customers who depend on their software to make a living. (I'm a published author)

But for those of you complaining about paying for major upgrades, come on, people! Some of you have no concept of what is involved in writing a computer program with the complexity of Scrivener. I know. I come from a programming background. The programmers at L&L have developed a highly functional, specialized software with a limited market. (professional writers) Usually, customized software made this way has a price that matches its exclusivity. In the case of L&L, they are providing a custom solution to writers for a Pittance!

Scrivener has to be one of the best software deals out there. Compare its costs to Microsoft Office, especially now that Microsoft wants to staple us to their corporate teat, with subscriptions for the foreseeable future. I thank my lucky stars every day that there's a small group of programmers who still want to provide quality software at a traditional software price.

And getting beta software and updates for free? Come on! Participating in a beta program is a PRIVILEGE. Why? Because it gives you access to modern advances, usually at no cost and MOST IMPORTANTLY, gives you a VOICE in the design and function of the software you are using. Try to get Microsoft to listen to any of your complaints about features or reliability of their products!

Come on, guys. The L&L team is trying their best to learn from their prior mistakes and work within the limitations provided to them by the mega-corporate operating systems for our benefit. It's time we give them a little kudos for their efforts. I'd pay three times what they're asking for the upgrade (whatever it is) simply because I make my living with their software. Take a look at what video editors have to pay to "the man" (Adobe) for right to do their job.

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:56 pm
by broadsides
Hey GioGio80,
I thought your post was reasonable. Beware upsetting the groupies and sycophants, their sense of injustice at any slight criticism of L and L can send them into a spasm of posts. Just because you bought bugged software that won't work with your monitor there is no reason to get upset by waiting a long time and then be offered buggier software, which after you have tested it, you can then pay for to fix your problem. At least not giving you a fix for the resolution problem freed up time to get the next version out.

Hush now, I think I hear Sanguinous choking on his indignation...

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:08 pm
by broadsides
Interesting post Kiester. You start by stating firmly 'I am no shill' and then go on for a few paragraphs to show us just how much of a 'shill' you are. And that's after your last post 'HUGE Kudos to the Scrivener Team!' Entertaining. You know, as do the rest of the windows users, that KB is throwing out the beta to keep the dwindling windows users placated. Tossing a herring to the seals. It will work for some, others will go elsewhere.

Re: Any hints on coming 3.0 features...

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:04 am
by kewms
Directly insulting other forum members is out of bounds, broadsides. This is your only warning.

Katherine