Considering buying, but lack of "Mac" features [answered]

Or
OrganicCat
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:09 pm Post

I notice the Windows version lacks a lot of the core functions the Mac version has.

Specifically, the first one I ran into was the Template feature, which does not at all work like the Mac version. When could one reasonably expect this, and other features in the Windows build?

I feel like the Windows version has only about half the power of the Mac version. The core functionality is still there, but so is any word processor. Scrivener is definitely hands down a bonus for writers, but not, in my opinion, worth the cost for Windows users.

If the price was ~$20 USD, I would definitely consider it, but definitely not for double that as it stands.

Looking for feedback from the development team or those in the know, thanks!
Last edited by OrganicCat on Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

je
jenb
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:03 pm Post

Well, Scriv for Windows was only aimed at being Mac Scriv 1.0--it does meet and exceed that goal.

Not sure what you need as far as the Template setup--there's a way to do it. There are details in the manual that explain how to do it. It may not be how the Mac does it, since I don't use one and thus can't speak for it, but it is doable. Less elegantly, perhaps.

Not worth the cost for Windows users?!?! Ok, this is where I get all annoyed at you. Don't presume to speak for every Windows user, friend. SfW is a huge, wonderful program that helps out many Windows users. Ok, yes, I don't know the wonders of the Mac version, because I don't use a Mac and have never had an opportunity to use any of the relatively recent 2.0 upgrades. Most of what you can't get in Windows? Hasn't been part of the Mac version all that long. And speaking as a SfW user, looking at the list of what the SfM gets that I don't get, there's maybe a couple of items I really want, a handful more that I'd use if they were there but don't resent not having, and the rest are just gravy. Scriv does everything that THIS Windows user wants and more. So it is worth the cost for me. And probably a couple other Windows users.

To make this much more constructive a post, whether or not you buy the Windows version I would think would depend on the following factors: is it worth it to you to be able to use your Scriv projects in a windows environment when your Mac one isn't available, and is what's missing something absolutely crucial to *your* process?

Only you can answer that.

And all the stuff that's in ScrivMac 2.0 is coming for ScrivWin. The timeline is a fluid but steady forward progress. I'd guess that once they've got all the post-release bugs/tweaks done, and the holidays get over, we'll start seeing some updates in the new year.

Jen
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mistakenhat
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:24 pm Post

I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you. The Windows version is very much a worthwhile purchase for me as it provides much greater functionality than a word processor. The Mac version might have extra features but that is of no interest to me as I do not own a Mac -- I base my judgment on the current development of Scrivener 1. The alternative would be to wait for Scrivener for Windows 2 to come out, but that would be to deny myself the benefits which v1 has brought me in flexibility and productivity. Speaking as a Windows user who has been using the software for some months, it is definitely worth the cost as its core functions are precisely those which I am looking for. If those aren't sufficient for your needs then that is fair enough, but you cannot speak for all Windows users.

Or
OrganicCat
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:49 pm Post

I wasn't asking for anyone to agree, I stated the facts, that the windows version has fewer features than the current Mac version, and hence, should fairly cost half of that version. This is coming from a new user, so writing off my opinions (as I carefully stated that **I** felt it wasn't worth the current price) is tantamount to saying "fine, don't buy our product", which I'm pretty sure the developer (being one myself) would rather have half the price rather than none at all.

I could be wrong, if you're the developer and not a devout supporter, fill me in here.

All that being said, I was looking for developer feedback or someone who actually knew if/when the Mac features would be added.

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AmberV
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:27 pm Post

Wait, so the Windows version, which has more features than the original Mac version, should cost $20 even though the original Mac version cost $40, what the Windows version does now? I think you are confusing what was actually a very generously priced $5 bump in the product cost for 2.x's features with what the original should have been priced at. Fact is, this has always been roughly $40 software.

But anyway, "Who has more features" isn't really a good metric for setting a price in the first place. It's the overall use of the software that counts. A dirt simple utility that does one thing can be worth $40 if it saves your business tens of thousands of dollars over the course of a year. So trying to come up with a price tag based on a spreadsheet of feature lists is probably not the best mechanic. Otherwise the Mac version should cost $90, by your logic.
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je
jenb
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:33 pm Post

You said your opinion was that it wasn't worth it for "Windows users," not "not worth it for me." No one was trying to write off your opinions with a handwave and a "then don't buy it." We were disagreeing at the notion that because your opinion was that it was only half complete, then it wasn't worth it to Windows users.

I think if the only answers you're interested in are the developers, it would be worth writing to the developers directly, not to a forum that is as much one supported by users because the responses you get are going to include those from people who aren't developers.

That being said, and probably not worth much to you, I frequent these forums quite regularly and I don't remember there being any posting of an official timeline. There's a lot in the works, and as I said, it's probably going to start coming in updates after the first of the year. There's still some release bugs that have snuck past the community (many of whom were active beta testers). I know that the goal is to get to all of the features as soon as possible.

The Mac 1.0 version was a full priced version. Windows 1.0 (which is the same with some bonuses as the Mac 1.0) is also a full priced version. There's certainly some features that aren't in the Windows version yet, but I still disagree with your assertion that it is only half of the Mac version. Because all the major parts are there, the things that make Scrivener different from other products.

I stand by what I said: only you can decide if it is worth it to you. If you're worried about getting certain features, than you would be better off waiting. I suggest you do a good look at what is "missing" from the Windows version before you make any declarations as to it not being "worth" it to Windows Users or yourself, because I think you'll find that the Win 1.0 is a lot more feature-complete than you think.

Jen
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Catsmad
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:48 pm Post

I agree. The price of this software is fair, considering what you'd pay for the bloat of Word and it's a lot less useful to writers. I was happy to pay what I paid for it and would have paid more without question. I always find people who moan about features not being present are generally more into messing about with the program rather than using it for writing. I have no time to wonder or prod about in Scrivener looking for what it has or dosen't have because I am too busy actually writing to care about things like templates. Templates for what? I started with a blank sheet (like you do) and am now close to finishing my second novel ( currently at 89000 words in six weeks on the Scrivmeister). I haven't read the manual either. I don't have time to. If I need something I'll find it or work it out as I go. I got behind the wheel of this great new car and said to the salesman, how do I indicate left and right and how do I stop. I didn't need to know anything else. Start typing, you may find all those features you're obsessing about, but why bother when you could be doing what this great piece of software was designed for.

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robertdguthrie
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Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:26 pm Post

Before the Windows beta showed up, and even before version 2 of Scrivener for Mac came out, a number of writers thought that $40 + the cost of a brand new mac was worth it to get fewer features than you have now with the Windows version.

So if the features are really that important to you, consider that for a mere $1,039, you could have Scrivener 2, plus a free 11" Macbook Air. What a bargain!
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je
jenb
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Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:25 pm Post

Dang it! No one told me about that deal before I bought the Windows version.
/Rage mode on!

:)

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Dretzle
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Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:25 am Post

The cost comparison would be fair if you were comparing competing products. Will I buy Scrivener 1.0 for $40? Or Scrivener 2.0 for $45? Well, obviously I'd buy Scrivener 2.0.

They're not competing products, unfortunately. People that use Macs have Scrivener 2.0 as their option and people that use Windows have Scrivener 1.0 as their option for now. So if you're looking for software to assist in your writing, compare Scrivener 1.0 to things like WriteWay or yWriter or Word or other tools.

For me, I think a major problem with my writing before was because I didn't have Scrivener. Getting Scrivener, honestly, is what got me to complete my first novel. Halfway through the rewrite now and Scrivener makes it easy to see that I'm missing a whole plotline I needed, and help me wind it in with its corkboards and whatnot.

I do have a Mac for work and I've seen Scrivener on the Mac, so I know where the OP is coming from. Coming home to my Windows I do get the feeling of "Oh, crap, this is not as slick as the Mac one and I wish I could use the popup reference notes" and so on.

But Windows is the computer I use for my personal stuff; that's what I have available. So when I want to write and finish my novel I have to compare Scrivener to whatever else I have available on Windows. Word or Open Office could possibly actually work better for what you need. When I write 1,000 word articles, I use Word.

One view to take is that the Mac version has twice the features and stability and so forth, so the Windows version should cost half as much. In reality, the Windows version is being developed by a separate team than the Mac version and will have to support itself in sales (though initial development, I'm sure, had to be subsidized by Mac version profits). Hence, you need a price tag that is (a) competitive in the market and (b) supports its own development.

Another way to look at it is that the Mac version should be twice as much, so they should just make Mac owners pay $80. :) Honestly, I'd have paid $80 for it (though it may have taken me longer to break down and purchase it).

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ginanoir
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Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:41 am Post

My response to the original message would have to be "Don't feed the Trolls".

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ZACK
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Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:29 am Post

ginanoir wrote:My response to the original message would have to be "Don't feed the Trolls".

Well said :=)
I think the price of Scrivener is really honnest.

Or
OrganicCat
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Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:24 am Post

ginanoir wrote:My response to the original message would have to be "Don't feed the Trolls".


I sent a message to the support team and got an actual response days ago. I should have known better than to use a forum full of fan boys for support questions initially :wink:

je
jenb
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Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:31 am Post

Well, I hope you don't need any support questions answered in the future, because with that attitude, the "fan boys" probably won't be inclined to answer you with that attitude.
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robertdguthrie
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Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:21 pm Post

Hey! I was being very helpful, thank you very much!

An alternative approach to achieve parity with most people using Scrivener 2 is to go back in time up to about 4 or 5 years, buy a mac in pre-recession dollars, buy Scrivener 1 for Mac. Wait several years until something worth your time was coming, and finally pay another $25 for the upgrade last year.

Do I have to do all of the problem solving here? :roll:
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