Scrivener has an odd behavior when it comes to undo's. For example, I might be editing in the outline view, and once I press enter, the previous actions I performed during the edit can no longer be undone--they could only be undone if I haven't pressed enter yet. Same thing with rearranging the order of items in the different views--they cannot be undone, even if I accidentally dragged something and moved it and can't tell where I dropped it.
Anyone else thinks this is highly unusual undo behavior from a piece of software?
Odd Undo behavior?
To be honest this is about the only feature of the software I hate, which for a program costing about £25 isn't bad. I learnt my lesson early on and if UNDO works at all you are lucky. Now I tend to make full use of the snapshot button and just as I did in MS Word am constantly hitting the save button. There are also the timed backups to fall back on. But it is a pain. I am fairly confident this will be sorted out in future releases though and it would not stop me from using it. At first I thought it might just be a quirk of my operating system and PC etc, but the UNDO on everything else I use works fine.
Catsmad wrote:At first I thought it might just be a quirk of my operating system and PC etc, but the UNDO on everything else I use works fine.
Perhaps this is intentionally part of the software's design? Unless this has been flagged as a bug, I would have to assume this is a design decision, not a bug or oversight?
I find the undo to be inadequate. Windows apps usually have undo that goes at least 20 deep. Scrivener barely goes 1 deep. In Visual Studio tools, there is an undo queue for each document. I expected that here. It would be a great, and I feel necessary, feature.
Catsmad wrote:To be honest this is about the only feature of the software I hate, which for a program costing about £25 isn't bad. I learnt my lesson early on and if UNDO works at all you are lucky.
I don't know if this has to do with money. But if it does, I'd be happy to pay 10 times as much to get more frequent bug fixes and a more robust performance. Maybe Scrivener could even branch out into a pro-version and a scaled-down "special edition".
Like Lunatique said, it might even be by design, since it has not been flagged as a bug. In which case I wonder about the advantages? But I am stuck with that question in other areas, too, that are very different from what I found helpful in other applications. I am becoming more and more disillusioned the more I work with Scrivener. Which may not be the fault of the program, but the exaggerated hype about it.
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DragonettiDr
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- Platform: Windows
This is a nit with me too. I don't have access to Scrivener at the moment, but this is what I remember.
I think the undo only works in the editor mode. I'm pretty sure that undo/redo doesn't work within the binder, corkboard, and outliner.
I'm not sure, but does the snapshot back up the binder or only the open editor document? If the snapshot doesn't back up the binder, you'd have to copy/backup the file before you moved scenes/chapters in the binder.
I think the undo only works in the editor mode. I'm pretty sure that undo/redo doesn't work within the binder, corkboard, and outliner.
I'm not sure, but does the snapshot back up the binder or only the open editor document? If the snapshot doesn't back up the binder, you'd have to copy/backup the file before you moved scenes/chapters in the binder.
Dragonetti wrote:This is a nit with me too.
If the snapshot doesn't back up the binder, you'd have to copy/backup the file before you moved scenes/chapters in the binder.
It kind of works the other way round (at least what I found out): The binder takes care of the snapshots. These are indeed meant to work on a per-document basis, but when you move it around in the binder, the associated snapshots will travel along.
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DragonettiDr
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- Platform: Windows
Yes, you are correct. The snapshot backups the document.
However, if I use the binder as an out liner and move files around within the binder, I don't think the actual binder moves/changes can be undone.
However, if I use the binder as an out liner and move files around within the binder, I don't think the actual binder moves/changes can be undone.
Yes, you are right, it cannot be undone. What's much worse, however, is the behavior described in the first posting of this thread. It is something you really need to be aware of, because it is very uncommon among Windows software. That could trip you up badly.
Lemme echo these sentiments... I recall undoing some formatting in the editor and then when I went to redo them it did nothing; maybe moved my scroll position a bit but even with clicking the available redo button an infinite amount of times it appeared to do nothing.
Like the other guy, I'm getting rather dillusioned with this software and I payed £30 for it... hearing about the advanced Mac version is making me so envious... when is the next update due for this, it's been a while!
Like the other guy, I'm getting rather dillusioned with this software and I payed £30 for it... hearing about the advanced Mac version is making me so envious... when is the next update due for this, it's been a while!
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pigfender
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Ackers, Can I check my understanding here? Are you experiencing problems when using the "Undo" / Ctrl-Z function in the EDITOR? As I understand it, most comments around Undo relate to being surprised you can't use undo in the outliner, corkboard and binder rather than any issues with them in the Editor. If you are having issues there then it might be worth flagging those in a new thread in the Bug Hunt section.
Stefan, sorry you're getting disillusioned. I guess Scrivener does have a learning curve, and yes some aspects might work differently from your expectations based on other software. That's more to do with Scrivener being designed with a very different workflow in mind than any deliberate attempt to confuse! But it can be an issue - When my work forced me to move from Excel 2003 to 2007 I had very similar feelings. I couldn't find where key functions were. Things that used to take a single button press seemed to take three or more now. Basically I went from an expert to a complete novice overnight.
Of course, now I know 2007 very well. When I had to use 2003 the other day I was completely stumped. It's all down to biting the bullet and getting used to the new software.
And I'd like to think that it's more "enthusiasm for the product" than "exagerated hype".
Stefan, sorry you're getting disillusioned. I guess Scrivener does have a learning curve, and yes some aspects might work differently from your expectations based on other software. That's more to do with Scrivener being designed with a very different workflow in mind than any deliberate attempt to confuse! But it can be an issue - When my work forced me to move from Excel 2003 to 2007 I had very similar feelings. I couldn't find where key functions were. Things that used to take a single button press seemed to take three or more now. Basically I went from an expert to a complete novice overnight.
Of course, now I know 2007 very well. When I had to use 2003 the other day I was completely stumped. It's all down to biting the bullet and getting used to the new software.
And I'd like to think that it's more "enthusiasm for the product" than "exagerated hype".
pigfender,
you know that you can add the classic menu to Excel's ribbon? Plenty of freeware out there (UBITmenu etc) to access your functions the same old way you're used to.
Talking about different behavior and learning new things. I don't mind that at all, if
a) it is faster or more efficient (should be easy to prove this one)
b) it is working as advertised (this may be a misconception on my part)
I don't mind the enthusiasm of users here. As long as they don't consider it blasphemy when I voice my complaints about glitches. To me software is a tool and not the holy grail.
At times this forum feels like being in a supermarket, surrounded by customers from a 3rd world country. They obviously have never seen a decent software before. Hooraying in awe and wonder they do not want to hear about anything that might break the spell.
It did not work for the stock market and not for the car industry, but if downplaying problems cures software issues, I will join the chorus.
you know that you can add the classic menu to Excel's ribbon? Plenty of freeware out there (UBITmenu etc) to access your functions the same old way you're used to.
Talking about different behavior and learning new things. I don't mind that at all, if
a) it is faster or more efficient (should be easy to prove this one)
b) it is working as advertised (this may be a misconception on my part)
I don't mind the enthusiasm of users here. As long as they don't consider it blasphemy when I voice my complaints about glitches. To me software is a tool and not the holy grail.
At times this forum feels like being in a supermarket, surrounded by customers from a 3rd world country. They obviously have never seen a decent software before. Hooraying in awe and wonder they do not want to hear about anything that might break the spell.
It did not work for the stock market and not for the car industry, but if downplaying problems cures software issues, I will join the chorus.
Last edited by StefanG on Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jaysen
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- Location: East-Be-Jesus-Nowhere SC, USA
Stefan,
You may want to back off the tone of your messages just a tad. Given that you have kept your location private, I can only assume that you understand the underlying snobbery of many of your phrases. Referring to scrivener as a "kludge" is frankly an insult not just to the development teams, but also to those who find it liberating. You just called all of us kludges as we don't see any issue with the current behavior. Your particular view of how software should operate is as welcome as my view on which OS is the right one to use.
Courtesy is something the we all have to practice. Even if we believe our opinion is more valid than someone else's.
Same goes for you pigfender. You may find it best to step back and let KB and Lee address Stefan's concerns. I don't think you or I can adequately address the issues he has raised as we do not represent L&L in an official capacity.
You may want to back off the tone of your messages just a tad. Given that you have kept your location private, I can only assume that you understand the underlying snobbery of many of your phrases. Referring to scrivener as a "kludge" is frankly an insult not just to the development teams, but also to those who find it liberating. You just called all of us kludges as we don't see any issue with the current behavior. Your particular view of how software should operate is as welcome as my view on which OS is the right one to use.
Courtesy is something the we all have to practice. Even if we believe our opinion is more valid than someone else's.
Same goes for you pigfender. You may find it best to step back and let KB and Lee address Stefan's concerns. I don't think you or I can adequately address the issues he has raised as we do not represent L&L in an official capacity.
Jaysen
I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09
I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09
Thanks for correcting my vocabulary, Jaysen
my location is Germany, and I was not aware that "kludges" refer to the whole package and not to individual parts of a software as I had assumed. I have edited my post and changed it to glitches. This is more precise and appropriate I hope.
That was not my intention and I apologize for this misunderstanding. I was not even referring to this issue but mainly to other postings in response to pigfender's reaction to me becoming disillusioned.
my location is Germany, and I was not aware that "kludges" refer to the whole package and not to individual parts of a software as I had assumed. I have edited my post and changed it to glitches. This is more precise and appropriate I hope.
You just called all of us kludges as we don't see any issue with the current behavior.
That was not my intention and I apologize for this misunderstanding. I was not even referring to this issue but mainly to other postings in response to pigfender's reaction to me becoming disillusioned.