Scrivener 3 Windows Release

Ja
Jaaaarne
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Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:12 am Post

lunk wrote:The people behind the Manuscripts app tried to do exactly that back in 2014. It was to be a writing app dedicated to scientific writing and fully integrated with Papers 3 reference app. They released an early beta version for free but vey early decided to start selling the beta as version 1 although it was still a very buggy beta.

Didn't say anything about early beta. Something that has been worked on for a year can only be an early beta if no work has been done whatsoever. Which is obviously not the case here.

Besides, steveshank was talking about "a really good product", which implies strive for perfection. :) That is a good thing per se, but you see how long Windows users have been complaining. Have people had this new release, even if a bit buggy in some scenarios, they would have had an ability to roll back to the previous version and wait further. I think there would've been more understanding. Otherwise people feel neglected compared to other users. I don't think this makes for happy customers. :)

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lunk
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Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:44 am Post

Jaaaarne wrote:Otherwise people feel neglected compared to other users. I don't think this makes for happy customers. :)

There are lots of apps for Windows and Android that are not available for Mac or iOS, but that doesn’t make me feel neglected. Personally I actually think this kind of complaining is a bit childish. If Scrivener 3 is so important for you, there is a simple solution. Buy a Mac! If running Windows is more important than running Scrivener 3, stay with Windows and Scrivener 1.9!

Life isn’t fair or juste, it only is what it is.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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kewms
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Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:14 pm Post

Jaaaarne wrote:Besides, steveshank was talking about "a really good product", which implies strive for perfection. :) That is a good thing per se, but you see how long Windows users have been complaining. Have people had this new release, even if a bit buggy in some scenarios, they would have had an ability to roll back to the previous version and wait further. I think there would've been more understanding. Otherwise people feel neglected compared to other users. I don't think this makes for happy customers. :)


I'm not sure I understand the complaint here. The public beta is available for download now. That is exactly the code you would get if we released the program today, except that it's free, and admits that it is beta-quality code.

If you don't want to use beta code, that's fine, but it doesn't really make sense to argue that we should release the software now while simultaneously refusing to use the code that we *have* released.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

Sc
Scribhneoir
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Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:20 pm Post

Jaaaarne wrote:I'd say, the only reasons L&L has not been hurt by this is that the product is very niche and basically they have no competition. Clients have nowhere to go.

Not to say that current version is bad, of course. It's quite good and fits most needs.


Yes, I love Scrivener and I don't want to dump it, especially since there isn't anything else that's comparable.

But it is frustrating to wait and wait and wait for the promised parity with Mac and, after a year, be told there's still no plan to actually release v3.

I'm sure the Mac developers haven't been sitting on their hands this past year waiting for Windows to catch up. So, will Windows v3 be released before Mac v3.1? I doubt it.

But, hey, we can always use the perpetual beta. :( Or buy a Mac. :roll:

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lunk
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Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:33 pm Post

Jaaaarne wrote:[
I'd say, the only reasons L&L has not been hurt by this is that the product is very niche and basically they have no competition. Clients have nowhere to go.

There are competitors and thus alternatives for those who are discontended with Scrivener 1.9 and don’t want to use the beta:

https://www.stephenwillis.co/best-free- ... ernatives/
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, all running Mojave.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

Ji
JimRac
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Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:41 pm Post

Hi Jaaaarne,

Couple of responses to your points.

Jaaaarne wrote:It's been proved not once that it's better to release an innovative product and then iron out the inevitable bugs, than spend years ironing out the bugs and lose the clients.

But this isn't really applicable to Scrivener, is it. When first released Scrivener was certainly a groundbreaking, innovative app. However, 10 years or so down the road, Scrivener is now a mature product with a large, sophisticated customer base, some of whom *make their living* using Scrivener. I am grateful that L&L has not succumbed to the temptation of prematurely releasing a buggy product for increased revenue.

Jaaaarne wrote:Especially if releasing means money, With which you can strengthen the team and do work more quickly.

By "strengthen the team" do you mean "hire more developers"? The thing is, and of course this is complete speculation on my part, I suspect L&L is just about as big as Keith wants it to be, although I could see them trying to hire an iOS developer, to allow Keith to focus on Mac. But finding the right person is not a trivial undertaking.

Jaaaarne wrote:Sadly, I won't be upgrading this time. I have to move away from Scrivener not because of lack of v.3, but because of lack of cross-platform solution. My usage of Linux has been growing exponentially during this year (and will continue), and not having compatibility halts the writing process. So I'm moving to markdown editor, which will allow me versatility I've never had before juggling between Fedora, Android and Windows, Of course, it's not quite the same, but then, writing is not about bells and whistles. :)

There seems to be a plethora of markdown editors out there now, so it seems like a good choice. Best of luck, I hope you find something that works for you.

Jim
I’m just a customer.

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tomwood
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Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:28 am Post

If you don't want to use beta code, that's fine, but it doesn't really make sense to argue that we should release the software now while simultaneously refusing to use the code that we *have* released.

"Consistency is not a human trait." - Maude
I have a very odd feeling about this...

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devinganger
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Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:40 pm Post

Scribhneoir wrote:But it is frustrating to wait and wait and wait for the promised parity with Mac and, after a year, be told there's still no plan to actually release v3.


There *is* a plan. Releasing the betas is part of that plan. What they're not telling us, and what people are feeling entitled to (and it is that sense of entitlement that is the reason WHY they are not telling us) is what their current planned dates are. I realize that the dates are all some people are interested in, but L&L have been very straightforward from the get-go this time that they would not be giving dates, that the process would take as long as it takes.

If you have been using the various betas as they have been released, you can see clearly that there is a significant amount of progress being made and the trajectory for catching up to the Mac version is actually pretty good.

But to say there's not a a plan is not accurate.
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Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Winner "Best in Class", 2018 My First Supervillain Photo Shoot

Ja
Jaaaarne
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Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:46 am Post

lunk wrote:There are lots of apps for Windows and Android that are not available for Mac or iOS, but that doesn’t make me feel neglected. Personally I actually think this kind of complaining is a bit childish. If Scrivener 3 is so important for you, there is a simple solution. Buy a Mac! If running Windows is more important than running Scrivener 3, stay with Windows and Scrivener 1.9!

I'm not the topic starter. And you've missed my point entirely. Not to mention that not having a version for an OS at all and having an inferior version for an OS are two quite different things.

Also. To buy a Mac I need to stop eating for about three months. Kindly get out of your first world bubble from time to time, will you.

kewms wrote:If you don't want to use beta code, that's fine, but it doesn't really make sense to argue that we should release the software now while simultaneously refusing to use the code that we *have* released.

I think you've mixed me up with somebody else. :)

I was talking about managing customers' expectations, which, frankly, L&L is doing a so-so job of. That's all. Communication to the customers is important. See another user's post below. They're speaking about being frustrated at empty promises. This is customer communication and managing expectations. How come L&L doesn't see it? Talk to people, give them something other than "one day we will release it".

I was not talking about refusing Windows beta. Simply because I'm on Linux 3/4 of time. :)

JimRac wrote:By "strengthen the team" do you mean "hire more developers"? The thing is, and of course this is complete speculation on my part, I suspect L&L is just about as big as Keith wants it to be, although I could see them trying to hire an iOS developer, to allow Keith to focus on Mac. But finding the right person is not a trivial undertaking.

Nobody promised it will be an easy feat. But you see, if the project is growing, if they want to cover more platforms, if the bar keeps being raised, then hiring more professionals is inevitable. Otherwise a bottleneck is created. Two good devs will be better than one. Three good devs will be better than two.

JimRac wrote:There seems to be a plethora of markdown editors out there now, so it seems like a good choice. Best of luck, I hope you find something that works for you.

Thank you. :) I've found a couple of apps that look promising, I will try them out this November. Although I do realise that switching to a new software before NaNo is a bit of a crazy move. :) But then, NaNo itself is a crazy idea, isn't. :)

Anyway, I'm really thankful for Scrivener. It has changed the way I write, and it has been a great experience. Hope everything works out in the best way possible.

Hope to return to it some day in future, when more OS are supported. :D

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devinganger
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Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:40 am Post

Jaaaarne wrote:Two good devs will be better than one. Three good devs will be better than two.


Like many topics in software development, this seemingly intuitive statement is incorrect more often than it is correct. Even good devs require ramp-up time to figure out how to work with the existing code, and for a non-trivial codebase like Scrivener, that time is typically measured in months -- possibly even years, given the specific requirements for experience in the framework being used, expertise in the text editing system, learning the customizations and overrides of the text editing system, etc. In the long run, of course, having those experienced devs will help, but in the short term, adding bodies usually *decreases* overall efficiency during the learning curve.

If you haven't read it, track down a copy of _The Mythical Man-Month_ and peruse it. It does a wonderful job of explaining why throwing more developers at a problem is usually the wrong solution to a time crunch.
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Winner "Best in Class", 2018 My First Supervillain Photo Shoot

Ji
JimRac
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Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:24 pm Post

Hi Jaaaarne,

Jaaaarne wrote:Have people had this new release, even if a bit buggy in some scenarios, they would have had an ability to roll back to the previous version and wait further.

The thing is, if they must have the new release *now*, it's available *now*! And for no additional cost!

Albeit as you say a bit buggy in some scenarios.

Jim
I’m just a customer.

sh
shaviro
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Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:50 pm Post

Am I right to assume that at least there will be a new beta for Scrivener 3/Windows once the current beta expires?

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kewms
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Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:58 pm Post

shaviro wrote:Am I right to assume that at least there will be a new beta for Scrivener 3/Windows once the current beta expires?


Yes.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

al
alisonnic
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Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:15 pm Post

Quick question: is the Windows Scriv 3 beta able to export ePub 3 files?

If not, does the iOS version of Scrivener export ePub 3 files? (I have an iPad Air 2)

I need to produce a valid ePub 3 file for upload to IngramSpark for publishing. So far I haven't been able to find a way to produce an ePub 3 file that doesn't generate errors in ePub validators. Ingram requires ePub 3 files to pass the validation at this site:

http://validator.idpf.org/

Thanks!

ro
rougetaureau
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:51 pm Post

Happy to see they won't release "buggy" versions. It is the worst kind of strategy, breaking the trust of your customers.
The current beta is very very slow and 1.9 is still a very good product. And although some new features of Scrivener 3 would be very helpful for my next writing phase, I'll just stick with 1.9. I do not have time to beta-test a product.