Using the Compiler

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MimeticMouton
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:10 pm Post

Okay, you're on the right track. As in Word, you just need to set the tab stops for the TOC document in Scrivener to be 4.1. Ctrl+Shift+R will toggle the ruler in the editor; select all the contents list and drag the tab stop from its current position (probably 6.25) to 4.1.

Normally the "Table of Contents" text in your document would be centred between the margins when compiled if it was centred in Scrivener's editor, but possibly you've set some specific indentation for that in Scrivener which is compiling as-is and thus moving it off to the right? You could try setting all the indents for that line to "0", or alternatively specifically set the right-indent to 4.1, in line with the right margin, so that the text is centred between the first-line and right indents.
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Marilynx
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Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:26 pm Post

MimeticMouton wrote:Okay, you're on the right track. As in Word, you just need to set the tab stops for the TOC document in Scrivener to be 4.1. Ctrl+Shift+R will toggle the ruler in the editor; select all the contents list and drag the tab stop from its current position (probably 6.25) to 4.1.

Normally the "Table of Contents" text in your document would be centred between the margins when compiled if it was centred in Scrivener's editor, but possibly you've set some specific indentation for that in Scrivener which is compiling as-is and thus moving it off to the right? You could try setting all the indents for that line to "0", or alternatively specifically set the right-indent to 4.1, in line with the right margin, so that the text is centred between the first-line and right indents.


All indents are set to zero.

The difference is, I'm using a page which is 5.5" wide and 8.5" long, half of a letter page. This is slightly smaller than a trade paperback, but prints nicely, 2 pages to a sheet.

Is there some place I can set the ruler without using those d@mn twitchy things? I can never get them to move to the place I want them in. For instance, right now, the ruler will let me have 4.2" or 4.0" but not 4.1".

I do have the ToC looking correct now immediately after the Compile.

However, all the Chapters occur on Page 3.
-- Marilynx

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MimeticMouton
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Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:38 am Post

Right, the default tab setting for the Copy as ToC is too wide for your 5.5inch page width, so adjusting it to the 4.1" setting will place the numbers at the right margin where you want them. You can control the tab stops better by going into the Editor settings in Tools > Options and adjusting the "snap to ruler" setting--if you make it .1, you should have a much easier time snapping the tab stop into place in the editor. For your existing documents you'll need to use Documents > Convert > Formatting to Default Text Style to put that into effect. You'll probably want to choose "Preserve alignment" and "Preserve tabs and indents" when you run that on the TOC, so you don't have to redo formatting.

Have you tried compiling directly to RTF and opening that to check the page number links? That will bypass converter issues, so let's get that working first to see what's going on. Which version of Word are you using?
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Marilynx
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Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:45 am Post

MimeticMouton wrote:Right, the default tab setting for the Copy as ToC is too wide for your 5.5inch page width, so adjusting it to the 4.1" setting will place the numbers at the right margin where you want them. You can control the tab stops better by going into the Editor settings in Tools > Options and adjusting the "snap to ruler" setting--if you make it .1, you should have a much easier time snapping the tab stop into place in the editor. For your existing documents you'll need to use Documents > Convert > Formatting to Default Text Style to put that into effect. You'll probably want to choose "Preserve alignment" and "Preserve tabs and indents" when you run that on the TOC, so you don't have to redo formatting.


Oh, lord, now I'm going to be confused again.

I have a .4" snap to set so my paragraph indentations will be that, per Robert's suggestion above.

Have you tried compiling directly to RTF and opening that to check the page number links? That will bypass converter issues, so let's get that working first to see what's going on. Which version of Word are you using?


No, I haven't tried compiling to RTF.

I am using Word XP (Word 2002). And trying to make sure all my old Word 6 files have been updated. But this Project was composed entirely in Scrivener.
-- Marilynx

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Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:50 am Post

Marilynx wrote:Oh, lord, now I'm going to be confused again.

Sorry, not trying to overwhelm. Setting the "snap to ruler" to .1 will let you easily move the tab stop slider or indent slider in .1 increments, so you'll still be able to easily reach .4.

Also, I was mistaken about the need to use Documents > Convert > Formatting to Default Text Style; that would only if you were actually putting new tab stops into the ruler as part of the default formatting. Changing the "snap to" setting will take effect immediately for the editor, regardless of the document, so you don't need to worry about any of that. It own't change your existing tab stops or indentation, to be clear; it just makes it so that when you drag the indent or tab stop marker, you can easily snap to .1 intervals.
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Marilynx
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Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:10 am Post

Okay, I'm going to see if I can find the snap-to setting. I know Robert mentioned it, but I have to find it. (Edited to add: Found it...)

That's why I asked if there were a dialogue for all these ruler commands because I simply turned the ruler off in Word. I never used it. I used the styles and so forth.

Also, compiled to RTF.... still have everything showing up on Page 3.

BTW, I hope I can save this compilation style so I can use it on other projects....
-- Marilynx

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:37 am Post

You can click the "Save Preset" button in the lower left of the compile dialog to save the preset and make it available with other projects. The contents list isn't saved, nor the "as-is" or "page break before" settings, since these are specific to the given project and the document settings, but everything else--level formatting, paper size, etc.--will be saved.

After you open the compiled document in Word, have you tried the Save As PDF or Print options to see if that sorts out the page numbering? Are the links to the chapters in the TOC correct, and just the page numbers are wrong, or do the links not work either? (In word you usually Ctrl+click the link.)
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Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:30 am Post

MimeticMouton wrote: You can click the "Save Preset" button in the lower left of the compile dialog to save the preset and make it available with other projects. The contents list isn't saved, nor the "as-is" or "page break before" settings, since these are specific to the given project and the document settings, but everything else--level formatting, paper size, etc.--will be saved.


Ok, great! <g> I think I can manage to remember how to click the "as is", which files I want, and where to put page breaks. Now I just have to remember what each level IS in my binder!

After you open the compiled document in Word, have you tried the Save As PDF or Print options to see if that sorts out the page numbering? Are the links to the chapters in the TOC correct, and just the page numbers are wrong, or do the links not work either? (In word you usually Ctrl+click the link.)


Remember, Word XP doesn't have "Save as PDF" but I do have CutePDF which allows me to print to a PDF file.. The links work fine -- doesn't matter if I click on them, or use the bookmarks. I also switched it over the .mobi and compiled a mobi file, and that came out REALLY nice, and the clickable links came out just fine. (I did discover that you don't want an extant ToC in mobi because you end up with two ToCs. So the second time I ran it, I just unchecked the print-mode ToC.)

OK, just ran a PDF print test, and the correct numbers appeared in the printed ToC.

I don't pretend to understand this, but it appears that whether printing to paper or PDF, that does straighten out the numbering. It doesn't do it for the Word Document, which would drive an editor start raving bonkers. (Several publishers I know require the submission of a Word.Doc file, not a print out, and they definitely won't take a PDF.

Now, related question. As you know, I'm going back and forth with my Co-Author on some of these projects. I've created a whole slew of character sheets that I want to send her to add to her copy of the project.

I could swear I read this somewhere, either here on Forum or in the manual, that it was possible to import a Word document and have Scrivener break it into pieces on import.

Can I compile a single document from my Characters folder, inserting the "break code," for splitting (was it a pound sign?) so that she can import that file and have it split up into the separate folders and documents that it was before compilation?
-- Marilynx

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:10 am Post

I don't have access to my machine with MS Office XP on it, so I'm afraid I can't run specific testing on that at the moment. I forgot it didn't have the PDF option, sorry about that. It should have a Print Preview though, which ought to run the layout stuff. If you open that and click around a bit in there to view the pages, then close it, does that get the page numbers updated? If not I'm going to need to do a little more testing in that version. Word's always been a little funky with this--on Mac too--and you need to kind of virtually kick it to get it to run the numbers. I've mostly been working with 2010 and 2013 lately, so 2002 might have a different trick.

Marilynx wrote:Can I compile a single document from my Characters folder, inserting the "break code," for splitting (was it a pound sign?) so that she can import that file and have it split up into the separate folders and documents that it was before compilation?

Yup, just use File > Import > Import and Split... and enter the character you used as a divider. The pound sign (#) is the default, but you can use anything you want, even multiple empty lines. The main thing is just to use a divider that's unique, so you only get the splits where you want them.

Remember too that although normally you can only compile documents that are within the Draft folder, you can compile text documents in a collections, so if your character items are outside the Draft, you can add them to a "Characters" collection and select that from the drop-down menu at the top of the Contents list in compile. Any collections you have will appear by name at the bottom of that menu.
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Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:51 am Post

MimeticMouton wrote:I don't have access to my machine with MS Office XP on it, so I'm afraid I can't run specific testing on that at the moment. I forgot it didn't have the PDF option, sorry about that. It should have a Print Preview though, which ought to run the layout stuff. If you open that and click around a bit in there to view the pages, then close it, does that get the page numbers updated? If not I'm going to need to do a little more testing in that version. Word's always been a little funky with this--on Mac too--and you need to kind of virtually kick it to get it to run the numbers. I've mostly been working with 2010 and 2013 lately, so 2002 might have a different trick.


Hey! It worked! I had it in page view, switched to the Print Preview, the page numbers changed to the correct ones, and they were still there when I shifted back to normal view!

Solution! So, er, WHY does viewing it in Page Preview trigger the correct page numbers?

Yeah, I know Word XP is outdated, but it works, it does what I need, and unless someone wants to gift me with a free copy of 2010 or 2013, I'm going to be stuck with it for awhile yet. Besides, I have it customized up the wazoo to the way I work.

<g> I'm shortly going to be putting my desktop machine back in action, and then I have to figure out how to transfer all the customizations I've added to the Scrivener on this lap top onto my desktop, but I think that's a topic for another thread.

Yup, just use File > Import > Import and Split... and enter the character you used as a divider. The pound sign (#) is the default, but you can use anything you want, even multiple empty lines. The main thing is just to use a divider that's unique, so you only get the splits where you want them.

Remember too that although normally you can only compile documents that are within the Draft folder, you can compile text documents in a collections, so if your character items are outside the Draft, you can add them to a "Characters" collection and select that from the drop-down menu at the top of the Contents list in compile. Any collections you have will appear by name at the bottom of that menu.


Yes, the Character sheets are outside of Draft, and in a separate folder. So... I select the files and folders I want, go to Documents => Add To Collection => New Collection, and Name It. Then I say Compile => and select the Collection from the drop down menu directly above the Contents.

Except I'm not seeing where I should put the unique character for this. Ought I to develop a separate preset for this?

(I should warn you... I have half a gazillion questions about how to work the Compiler, because I can see how powerful it is and how useful it will be. I did read the manual first, but apparently, I don't think the way the person who wrote the manual does, because either I'm missing some of the how-tos, or they don't make sense to me, personally. Then again, I've been told I'm a bit strange....)
-- Marilynx

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:39 am Post

Oh good, I'm glad the Print Preview is working now. Running that forces Word to figure out the layout for printing, which means updating all the internal references for page numbers, etc. so it's kind of "seeing" for the first time where the linked RTF bookmarks are falling in the layout.

I have nothing against Word XP. I rejoice that it does not have The Ribbon and would not try to dissuade you from using it. I rarely use Word at all these days outside of testing, but I have the newer versions installed on the Windows 7 machines I use more frequently for that, since they're more common.

Except I'm not seeing where I should put the unique character for this. Ought I to develop a separate preset for this?

In the Separators tab of compile, choose "Custom" as the separator between whatever file types you have for your character sheets (if they're all text files, you want the text/text separator; if some of them are folders, you'll need to set others--you could just set the same custom separator for everything and it should be fine) and then enter the character there.

You might want to make other changes and save it as another preset--for instance if you have a header and footer normally, you might not want that here, or you might want a different one that just indicates the title of the project the character sheets are for, etc. Once you have it set as you like, just choose "Save Preset" and give it a new name.
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Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:49 pm Post

MimeticMouton wrote:Oh good, I'm glad the Print Preview is working now. Running that forces Word to figure out the layout for printing, which means updating all the internal references for page numbers, etc. so it's kind of "seeing" for the first time where the linked RTF bookmarks are falling in the layout.

I have nothing against Word XP. I rejoice that it does not have The Ribbon and would not try to dissuade you from using it. I rarely use Word at all these days outside of testing, but I have the newer versions installed on the Windows 7 machines I use more frequently for that, since they're more common.


Yes, the Ribbon is one of the reasons I am resisting going to later editions of Word. I dislike it immensely.

I suppose the Print Preview thing makes a certain amount of sense, but it certainly was confusing. Now that I know what the situation is, it's worthwhile.

In the Separators tab of compile, choose "Custom" as the separator between whatever file types you have for your character sheets (if they're all text files, you want the text/text separator; if some of them are folders, you'll need to set others--you could just set the same custom separator for everything and it should be fine) and then enter the character there.


Found it. I'm experimenting back and forth to be sure what I'm doing actually works before sending it to my co-author. She's even newer to Scrivener than I am, and gets frustrated very easily if something doesn't work instantly.

I exported the Character folder, using # as separator for everything, as a .doc file. When I attempted to re-import the file Scrivener had just created, I got a converter error. Scrivener said the .doc file it had just made wasn't a .doc file. So I re-exported it as an RTF file, and that imported okay, except....

(You knew it was coming, didn't you?)

The structure of what I compiled was

Character Folder
Character Type 1 Folder
Character Name Text
Character Name Text
Character Name Text
Character Type 2 Folder
Character Name Text
Character Name Text
Character Name Text
Character Type 3 Folder
Character Name Text
Character Name Text
Character Name Text

What I got back, on reimportation, was a single folder claiming to have all the items in it. When I clicked on the folder, it displayed, scrivenings style, all of the documents I had imported. It says it has X files in it... but I can't open the folder to access them.

I deleted the folder, and tried importing it straight. This time, I got a text document which SAYS it has all the documents in it, and again, I can see them as one long scroll, but cannot access the separate documents.

FYI, Character Folder is flush against the left margin of this message, Character Type Folders should be indented one level, and each of the Character Documents should be indented under the Character Type Folders. It shows that way in the edit panel, but everything is flush left in Preview.

You might want to make other changes and save it as another preset--for instance if you have a header and footer normally, you might not want that here, or you might want a different one that just indicates the title of the project the character sheets are for, etc. Once you have it set as you like, just choose "Save Preset" and give it a new name.


Right. Once I figure out how to get this to work!
-- Marilynx

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Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:16 am Post

Marilynx wrote: Scrivener said the .doc file it had just made wasn't a .doc file.

Sorry, this is a problem with the importer when working with a compiled .doc file using the "RTF-Based" converter. Compiling straight to RTF will be best for this, since you're just passing it off to your collaborator for re-import.

Marilynx wrote:What I got back, on reimportation, was a single folder claiming to have all the items in it. When I clicked on the folder, it displayed, scrivenings style, all of the documents I had imported. It says it has X files in it... but I can't open the folder to access them.

This I think is a bug we're in the process of fixing for the next relesae. If you select the folder into which you've imported the documents and use the RightArrow key to expand the folder, does that work? There's a bug right now where the disclosure arrow in the binder isn't appearing on the Import & Split until triggered by some change to the folder like dragging and dropping the subitems. For instance if you select the folder and load it in corkboard or outliner mode (select the view mode from the View menu or using the icon buttons in the main toolbar), you can move one of the documents in the editor and it will display the disclosure triangle in the binder. Then just move the doc back to its proper place.
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Marilynx
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Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:14 am Post

MimeticMouton wrote:
Marilynx wrote: Scrivener said the .doc file it had just made wasn't a .doc file.

Sorry, this is a problem with the importer when working with a compiled .doc file using the "RTF-Based" converter. Compiling straight to RTF will be best for this, since you're just passing it off to your collaborator for re-import.


Check, no problem with doing that. I was just automatically going for the Word doc, since she's more likely to look for one of those, but I'll explain.


This I think is a bug we're in the process of fixing for the next release. If you select the folder into which you've imported the documents and use the RightArrow key to expand the folder, does that work? There's a bug right now where the disclosure arrow in the binder isn't appearing on the Import & Split until triggered by some change to the folder like dragging and dropping the subitems. For instance if you select the folder and load it in corkboard or outliner mode (select the view mode from the View menu or using the icon buttons in the main toolbar), you can move one of the documents in the editor and it will display the disclosure triangle in the binder. Then just move the doc back to its proper place.


Why does it figure I'd find I not-yet-fixed bug? Well, you're aware of it, and it's being worked on, so I will just have to be patient on it.

RightArrow didn't expand it. Shift+RightArrow, however, did.

The expansion is all files, with no folders.

People Category 1 is now a document with only that in it. Ditto Categories 2-whatever.

All the character sheets have been renamed to the first line of the actual text, where before, they had the names I had given them.

If desired, I can send you a screen shot of what the output folder looks like, and what it looks like when re-imported.

(Argh... my head hurts. Not only this, but I got my husband a new smart TV and blue ray player for Christmas, to replace a 19" CRT that is around 20 years old. The Smart TV is making both of us feel very dumb! Hope you have a Happy Holiday!)
-- Marilynx

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Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:34 am Post

Import and Split divides the document at the custom separator and uses the initial text of each document as the title. If you want to make sure the documents when imported use the same title as in your project, compile with the "Title" checkbox ticked for both folders and documents. That will mean the title is also added to the document when imported, but it may be a nicer solution for you than having the other text as the title. Worth experimenting at any rate.

Import and Split won't preserve any kind of hierarchy or a folder vs. file distinction; once you compile, remember, it's just a flat text document, and on import it's just chunking that document into multiple. But if you've got everything titled the way you want it, it shouldn't be difficult for your collaborator to select all the "Type" documents and then right-click and choose "Convert to Folder". Then she can select the documents between each set of folders and use the Ctrl+RightArrow shortcut to move them inside the folder as subdocuments.

I've attached a basic compile preset you can try, if you want to give it a look. Just download the zipped file, then double-click to open it and drag the "DocsToSplit" file to your Desktop. In Scrivener's compile settings, choose "Load Preset" and "Import" and browse to that file and choose "Open". Select the newly imported preset in the list and click OK to set it as the current preset (and also make it available in other projects). It leaves your editor formatting, but you may want to adjust the formatting for the titles to match whatever font you use; it's just Courier New at the moment.
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Jennifer Hughes
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